Success! 100% to Turtle run complete

[DaveEV]

Ideal LEAF (with accurate instruments and assuming 80 Wh/GID):
Full capacity = 22,480 kWh (charge capacity or 21.5 kWh (discharge capacity) = 281 GIDs = 94% SOC
LBW capacity = 3.91 kWh = 49 GIDs = 17% SOC

djjazzy's LEAF:
Full capacity = ?, but LeafSpy reports battery capacity of 59.69 Ah = 94% SOC
LBW capacity = 3.91 kWh = 49 GIDs = 26% SOC

RegGuheert's LEAF:
Full capacity = ?, but LeafSpy reports battery capacity of 59.60 Ah = 94% SOC
LBW capacity = 3.91 kWh = 49 GIDs = ~19% SOC

Interesting data there. On my LEAF (~54.75 Ah) hit LBW last night at 49 GIDs, 24.9% SOC. djjazzy's LEAF is certainly acting like a LEAF with less capacity, but it appears that the transition from VLBW to turtle is definitely heavily based on actual pack voltage.

I wonder if there is something different about the later '13 LEAFs that is causing this? My best theory is that it started happening when Nissan switched to using battery modules made in the USA rather than Japan and there is something different about the USA made cells (perhaps higher impedance) or electronics that is causing this artifact.

'13 LEAFs aren't the first ones to have seen this behavior, during Tony's Phoenix range testing last year a few of the LEAFs also exhibited similar behavior.

 

[djjazzy]

Ideal LEAF (with accurate instruments and assuming 80 Wh/GID):
Full capacity = 22,480 kWh (charge capacity or 21.5 kWh (discharge capacity) = 281 GIDs = 94% SOC
LBW capacity = 3.91 kWh = 49 GIDs = 17% SOC

djjazzy's LEAF:
Full capacity = ?, but LeafSpy reports battery capacity of 59.69 Ah = 94% SOC
LBW capacity = 3.91 kWh = 49 GIDs = 26% SOC

RegGuheert's LEAF:
Full capacity = ?, but LeafSpy reports battery capacity of 59.60 Ah = 94% SOC
LBW capacity = 3.91 kWh = 49 GIDs = ~19% SOC

Interesting data there. On my LEAF (~54.75 Ah) hit LBW last night at 49 GIDs, 24.9% SOC. djjazzy's LEAF is certainly acting like a LEAF with less capacity, but it appears that the transition from VLBW to turtle is definitely heavily based on actual pack voltage.

The Leaf's dash SOC showed 18% at LBW, LeafSpy showed 26%, and 9% at VLBW (thats's when GOM went blank) LeafSpy showed 16.4% SOC
I did not have LeafSpy hooked up when I was fully charged at 100% so I do not know what the SOC% and GIDS were at. but the car's dash showed 100%

The whole reason why I wanted to do a 100% to Turtle run, was because LeafSpy showed my Ah capacity at 59.69
and the car is less than 2 months old. So based on my Turtle run, do I seem to have a battery pack that comes with less
capacity? Am I wrong to assume that my battery pack capacity is fine? I thought since I went 92 miles, and the Leaf
computer said I averaged 4.3 miles per KwH, that is about 21.4 usable KwH. yes????????? or not

 

[RegGuheert]

The Leaf's dash SOC showed 18% at LBW, LeafSpy showed 26%,...

That's an interesting data point! And LeafSpy seems to have the better estimate. If the vehicle is not getting SOC from the same source as LeafSpy, then I wonder what it is using.

So based on my Turtle run, do I seem to have a battery pack that comes with less capacity?

No. I would say your test confirms that you have full capacity for a new LEAF. However, your electronics seem quite wonky and that will make it harder to access the full capacity of your battery.

Am I wrong to assume that my battery pack capacity is fine?

No, not in my opinion.

I thought since I went 92 miles, and the Leaf computer said I averaged 4.3 miles per KwH, that is about 21.4 usable KwH. yes????????? or not

I've never been able to make a run that demonstrated a capacity over about 20 kWh with our LEAF. That said, I also never took it more than one mile below VLBW. Who knows, perhaps there is more down there?

 

[ELROY]

My 2012 Leaf is a little over a year old now with 10300 miles. Just 6 months ago I was at around 96% capacity. Now it is only about 88.5% capacity. I have only quick charged it about 8 times so far. I live in pretty mild climate. I can usually only get 40-50 miles on 80% charge and 55-65 miles on 100% charge. Tonight I went 39 miles till LBW on a 80% charge (at a 3.6m/kWh) charge)

So last night, I ran into an EVgo employee charging to the Camarillo Station. He has a 2013 SV that has almost 10000 miles on it. He drives about 90 miles a day. On an 80% charge he says he can travel 70 miles. Much better than what I am getting. And this is a guy that quick charges practically everyday! I was curious as to what his battery condition was like, considering him admitting he had quick charged in fairly warm temps during the summer, etc. I was surprised that he was running about 100% capacity still? Is that an anomoly with the way the android App reads the battery on the 2013 models? Although his range seems far superior to mine. I still have 12 battery bars, but do I have a reason to complain to the dealership on my upcoming service check?

 

[RegGuheert]

RegGuheert's LEAF:
Full capacity = ?, but LeafSpy reports battery capacity of 59.60 Ah = 94% SOC
LBW capacity = 3.91 kWh = 49 GIDs = ~19% SOC

I wanted to follow up on this post since I saw a very different result today:

RegGuheert's LEAF:
Full capacity = ?, but LeafSpy reports battery capacity of 59.22 Ah = 95% SOC
LBW capacity = 3.91 kWh = 49 GIDs = 23.2% SOC

I drove 69.5 miles in two legs today. The outdoor temperature varied from about 35F to 39F during the trip. What was surprising was that LBW came on at 23.2% SOC, which is much higher than the previously-reported value. The only thing I found notable was that the temperature of the battery was about 5F higher today than it was in October when the other LBW occurs. (Which I find odd, since the outdoor temperature was likely colder today.)

Anyway, do others tend to see LBW occur at widely varying SOCs? If so, to what do you attribute it? Just typical variations in the instrumentation?

 

[stjohnh]

Anyway, do others tend to see LBW occur at widely varying SOCs? If so, to what do you attribute it? Just typical variations in the instrumentation?

In our 2 Leafs, both 2013 w capacities around 59-61 AH, we reliably get LBW at 26-27% SOC on LeafSpy. LBW occurs at 49Gids.

Indeed, I find the LeafSpy SOC the most accurate predictor of range for all SOC=11-97% when we drive at about 4.5mi/kwh. Range = (SOC-3) miles. Accurate to about 1 mile. For SOC less than 11%, minimum battery voltage is best predictor of distance to Turtle. But I am quite sure the programming in the 2013s is different than in 2012 Leafs.

 

[Berlino]

Anyway, do others tend to see LBW occur at widely varying SOCs? If so, to what do you attribute it? Just typical variations in the instrumentation?

LBW used to be 25.9% - 27.5% when Hx was between 60.4 and 63.99 and Max Gids were 263-276.

Then, about two weeks ago Hx leaped to 66.x and Max Gids to 284 and the only LBW experienced was at SOC% 23.9.

I have no idea what is going on.

 

[garygid]

At full battery, when new (not shrunk) the GIDs were perhaps 280 and
the SOC about 95%.

Let's say that the battery capacity has now shrunk to 50% of original.

Now, at full, the SOC is still 95%, because the SOC indicates
the "fullness" of the battery, not how much energy is stored
in the battery. The GIDs would read about half of new, or 140,
indicating that the shrunken, but full, battery is holding only
about half of what it did orriginally.

It is not a half-full glass, but a half-sized glass completely full.

If you understand this fact, then you will understand why
the LBW is at a fixed GID value (roughly a constant amount
of energy remaining energy in the battery) but the SOC
at LBW will change over the lifetime of the battery.

After severe shrinkage, the LBW might occur at 50% SOC,
or even at 95% SOC, if the battery were to shrink to about
1/6 th of the original capacity.