Stuck behind a Leaf in HOV lane

[abasile]

Judging by the presence on this forum of those of us who are avid bicyclists and also drive EVs, there seems to be a natural affinity for "zero emission" vehicles among bicyclists. (I hate breathing exhaust, particularly from giant diesel pickups with empty beds.)

As for doing the speed limit in the HOV lane, who cares if the law is on your side? Do you really want to be the target of road rage? You can be "dead right". Better to be stuck in traffic in the other lanes than to constantly make enemies. IMHO, part of "defensive driving" is sometimes letting other drivers have their way, even when they are in the wrong. Let God sort it all out in the end.

 

[SanDust]

From some of these comments, you'd think that the only way to legally drive a car on a public road is to always drive at EXACTLY the posted speed limit. I mean it is obvious that you shouldn't exceed that... but apparently some folks feel you also should never drive below it. Man, that's a hard needle to thread at all times!

Actually it's quite simple. You are only supposed to use the left lane for passing. If you're not passing then you should be in the far right lane. Those who don't follow this simple rule are called "Left Lane Campers" and are in fact not following the VC in the majority of states. If you doubt this just do a search.

The HOV lane is different because you generally only have one lane and the HOV lane is not considered to be the left hand lane. However, it's easily fixed. When I find myself in this situation I either (1) speed up -- are you not capable of driving as fast as everyone else or at least picking up the pace by 5 or 10 MPH -- or if that's not possible (2) move over out of the HOV lane, let the driver(s) behind me go by, and then move back into the HOV lane. People who have the attitude that they own the HOV lane and don't care that other drivers are piling up behind the are simply rude and obnoxious.

 

[cwerdna]

The HOV lane is different because you generally only have one lane and the HOV lane is not considered to be the left hand lane. However, it's easily fixed. When I find myself in this situation I either (1) speed up -- are you not capable of driving as fast as everyone else or at least picking up the pace by 5 or 10 MPH -- or if that's not possible (2) move over out of the HOV lane, let the driver(s) behind me go by, and then move back into the HOV lane. People who have the attitude that they own the HOV lane and don't care that other drivers are piling up behind the are simply rude and obnoxious.

The goofy part is that in WA state (per http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/hov/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false, where I recently moved back from, HOV lanes are sometimes NOT on the left side of the road.

But yes, I agree completely w/the above.

Left lane campers (very common in WA, where people drive too slowly as well) were very annoying. I already posted earlier how apparently 43% of WA state drivers were unaware that it's illegal (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=129154#p129154" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false.

 

[thankyouOB]

The HOV lane is different because you generally only have one lane and the HOV lane is not considered to be the left hand lane. However, it's easily fixed. When I find myself in this situation I either (1) speed up -- are you not capable of driving as fast as everyone else or at least picking up the pace by 5 or 10 MPH -- or if that's not possible (2) move over out of the HOV lane, let the driver(s) behind me go by, and then move back into the HOV lane. People who have the attitude that they own the HOV lane and don't care that other drivers are piling up behind the are simply rude and obnoxious.

and you, sir, use a tone best reserved for your children.
we are all adults, here.

or did you just stumble in from Upstairs, Downstairs?

 

[garygid]

Hey, almost everybody has their own opinions about something.

 

[Yodrak]

Best post in the thread. Thanks, Darell.

There are three things being discussed here, and they need to be kept separate.

...

 

[Yodrak]

Agreed.

Actually it's quite simple. You are only supposed to use the left lane for passing.

Agreed.

The HOV lane is different because you generally only have one lane and the HOV lane is not considered to be the left hand lane.

And people who have the attitude that they own the HOV lane (or any other lane, for that matter) and don't care that they are putting themselves and others at risk by tailgating other drivers are not rude and obnoxious? Pray tell, then, what are they?

People who have the attitude that they own the HOV lane and don't care that other drivers are piling up behind the are simply rude and obnoxious.

 

[thankyouOB]

And people who have the attitude that they own the HOV lane (or any other lane, for that matter) and don't care that they are putting themselves and others at risk by tailgating other drivers are not rude and obnoxious? Pray tell, then, what are they?

People who have the attitude that they own the HOV lane and don't care that other drivers are piling up behind the are simply rude and obnoxious.

[/quote]

Nice one, Yodrak.
I get that some folks think you could incite road rage if you dont speed in the HOV lane.
I go 65 if folks catch up to me. If I sense that the guy (it is never a woman) really needs to get past me, I find a solution. I only travel about 6 miles on an HOV'd freeway, so it doesnt happen often. It can be quite dangerous to pull out of the lane to the right when some speed demon is behind you, especially as you never know if the hotdogger will pull out of a sudden, to pass you on the right.

 

[BGog]

You are only supposed to use the left lane for passing. If you're not passing then you should be in the far right lane. Those who don't follow this simple rule are called "Left Lane Campers" and are in fact not following the VC in the majority of states.

Just so I understand. On my commute there are 5 lanes. 1 HOV + 4 others. Are you implying that all non-HOV drivers should be in the far right lane unless they are passing? It would seem more logical to me that the one far left lane (non HOV) could be only for passing while all other lanes are freely usable.

 

[Smidge204]

The HOV lane isn't for passing, so I'm not sure what the issue is. The HOV lane is for cruising, the whole point being that being in the center and having limited access means generally smoother flow of traffic.

Strictly speaking, there is no such thing as a "passing lane" anyway - if you're doing the speed limit there is no reason to pass anyone, and doing so would only mean you're violating traffic laws. The guy in front of you is under no obligation to break the law for your sake.

Just so I understand. On my commute there are 5 lanes. 1 HOV + 4 others. Are you implying that all non-HOV drivers should be in the far right lane unless they are passing? It would seem more logical to me that the one far left lane (non HOV) could be only for passing while all other lanes are freely usable.

Please refer to this handy diagram:

The lack of a condition to merge left is not an omission
=Smidge=

 

[lpickup]

Strictly speaking, there is no such thing as a "passing lane" anyway - if you're doing the speed limit there is no reason to pass anyone, and doing so would only mean you're violating traffic laws.

Not if there is traffic that is going under the speed limit. Then there is a legitimate reason to pull left and pass if there is a lane available to do that.

 

[Yodrak]

I agree - I'm confused about what the issue is as well. This thread seems to be mixing two separate issues - proper use of HOV lanes and proper use of multi-lane roads. As some posters have tried to clarify, the HOV land is not the "left lane" even when it happens to be the left-most lane. Other posters seem to consider the one and the same.

The HOV lane isn't for passing, so I'm not sure what the issue is. The HOV lane is for cruising, the whole point being that being in the center and having limited access means generally smoother flow of traffic.

I have to disagree with this one. There are valid reasons why a vehicle might travel under the maximum speed limit. Further, many highways specifiy a lower maximum speed limit for trucks, or cars with trailers, than for cars. So there can often be times when it's appropriate to pass and passing can be accomplished without exceding the maximum speed limit.

Strictly speaking, there is no such thing as a "passing lane" anyway - if you're doing the speed limit there is no reason to pass anyone, and doing so would only mean you're violating traffic laws.

I agree.

The guy in front of you is under no obligation to break the law for your sake.

As to the diagram, I think multi-lane roads exist for one main reason - a single lane is often insufficient to accomdate the number of vehicles that use the road. The idea of keeping to the right except to pass is a non-starter - all of the lanes need to be used. I agree that the diagram is appropriate for light-traffic times, but that is not the situation that underlies the discussion in this thread. The posts in this thread are clearly based on heavy-traffic situations such as commuting times. In such situations drivers would ideally select lanes such that the load on each lane is balanced, and would change lanes well in advance to position themselves for the point where they will exit the road. As a practical matter, the lane where traffic most often enters and exits - usually the right lane - would tend to be going somewhat slower than the other lanes to accomodate the required merging. And also, as a realistic matter, the other lanes will not be going at uniform speeds approximating the maximum speed limit for a number of reasons that have been frequently mentioned throughout the thread including, among others, those rude obnoxious driver who insist on exceding the maximum speed limit, those rude obnoxious drivers who insist on driving significantly below the speed limit, and those rude obnoxious drivers who insist on driving precisely at the speed limit!

Please refer to this handy diagram:

The lack of a condition to merge left is not an omission
=Smidge=

 

[travisty]

As to the diagram, I think multi-lane roads exist for one main reason - a single lane is often insufficient to accomdate the number of vehicles that use the road. The idea of keeping to the right except to pass is a non-starter - all of the lanes need to be used.

This is not fully true. Multi-lane roads can also allow slower traffic - 18 wheelers going uphill - to be passes safely. In Colorado it is law that unless you're passing you must stay in the right lane. Of course no cops actually enforce this law, but it is on the books.

An example. The CO-93 is for the most part 1 lane each way. At parts where there is a steep incline, the lane going uphill splits allowing cars to pass slower large vehicles. At the crest the lanes merge again for downhill.

 

[Yodrak]

I agree, there can be other reasons as well. You point out a good one.

As to the diagram, I think multi-lane roads exist for one main reason - a single lane is often insufficient to accomdate the number of vehicles that use the road. The idea of keeping to the right except to pass is a non-starter - all of the lanes need to be used.

This is not fully true. Multi-lane roads can also allow slower traffic - 18 wheelers going uphill - to be passes safely. In Colorado it is law that unless you're passing you must stay in the right lane. Of course no cops actually enforce this law, but it is on the books.

An example. The CO-93 is for the most part 1 lane each way. At parts where there is a steep incline, the lane going uphill splits allowing cars to pass slower large vehicles. At the crest the lanes merge again for downhill.

 

[dgpcolorado]

This is not fully true. Multi-lane roads can also allow slower traffic - 18 wheelers going uphill - to be passes safely. In Colorado it is law that unless you're passing you must stay in the right lane. Of course no cops actually enforce this law, but it is on the books...

I was pulled over for a warning shortly after the law was passed several years ago, before I was aware of it [it is only for highways with two or more lanes in each direction AND speed limits of 65 mph or greater; with slower speed roads passing lanes are usually posted as "Keep Right Except When Passing", else the law does not apply]. I follow it assiduously now. However, there are no two+two lane highways within LEAF range, so it is moot for me in the EV.

 

[starry]

The HOV lane, while convenient for those who qualify and use it properly, can be dangerous.
This is because of the limited foresight on the part of many drivers who feel "entitled" to go however fast they want. They must feel that the basic speed limit law just doesn't apply in that lane at all.
I commute to Garygid's house on the I-5 often in my Leaf with the white sticker. I go at least 72 on the speedo, which is an honest 70mph almost the whole way (9 miles in HOV lane). Usually the traffic to my right is moving even faster. But still, I get tailgaters who just can't comprehend why they should suffer behind me when they could be going 95 to 100 in the HOV lane (at least until they run down another vehicle) or they could be going 75 to 85 in a regular lane.
The reason I say the HOV lane could be dangerous is for two reasons:
The Leaf suspension, while great for little bumps and gives a smooth ride, is bouncy on dips. The local ground conditions has let the freeway surface get quite dippy compared to some other areas. This means that above 70mph, the Leaf is almost uncontrollable on those dips, especially on curves.
The exiting of an HOV lane is not safe if there is a slowing or stopping on all lanes to the right (as is the norm almost all mornings on I-5 North at several exits in Orange County). This is downright scary if I have to slow to 5mph to wedge into the next right lane when an HOV driver comes up behind me at 75mph.
I am beginning to question the wisdom of the whole HOV lane and sticker thing.
Gregg (driving the "StanLEAF Steamer")

 

[darelldd]

I'm not a bicyclist, but I'm curious -- are they totally immune to stop signs, stop lights, and so on? I see every bicyclist in San Diego blowing through intersections like they have Diplomatic Immunity. Is there a special VC carveout for this?

You see EVERY cyclist doing that? Wow. I've cycled in San Diego and stopped at intersections, so I guess our paths haven't yet crossed.

Bicycles are tasked with obeying those laws in the same way that every automobile driver is tasked with never speeding... and with coming to a complete stop at all stop signs, and with looking all around before opening their doors, etc. See where I'm going with this?? Most non-cycling drivers I know exceed the posted speed limits and roll through stop signs on a regular basis... and consistently complain about bicycles not obeying the laws. Do YOU ever speed or fail to come to a complete stop at a stop sign?

I'm not defending cyclists who break the laws. I am only pointing out the absurdity of calling the pot black. In general, most car drivers find it perfectly acceptable to travel at 70 mph on a roadway with a 65mph speed limit. And those same people will complain about a cyclist rolling through a stop sign.

 

[darelldd]

From some of these comments, you'd think that the only way to legally drive a car on a public road is to always drive at EXACTLY the posted speed limit. I mean it is obvious that you shouldn't exceed that... but apparently some folks feel you also should never drive below it. Man, that's a hard needle to thread at all times!

Actually it's quite simple. You are only supposed to use the left lane for passing. If you're not passing then you should be in the far right lane. Those who don't follow this simple rule are called "Left Lane Campers" and are in fact not following the VC in the majority of states. If you doubt this just do a search.

I'm not sure what that has to do with my comment about the implication by some that it is illegal to drive both OVER and UNDER the speed limit. My comment had nothing to do with lane choice. Only speed limits and travel speed. I'll add lanes here to see if I can be more clear: There truly are those who think that driving in the right-hand lane at 64 mph on a highway marked for 65 is illegal. And everybody (should?) know that it is illegal to drive 66 mph on that same roadway in ANY lane. That's the tough needle to thread that I was mentioning.

 

[smkettner]

This is the reason I chose not to put those ugly stickers on my LEAF :|

 

[EricH]

This is the reason I chose not to put those ugly stickers on my LEAF :|

I sympathize... there have been only a handful of times when I actually used the HOV lane in my Leaf, without my wife in the car (2 people = "carpool" everywhere but the I-10 here in SoCal), to avoid real traffic in the non-HOV lanes, but in nine months, it hasn't amounted to once per month. Those few times have been handy, but I can't say I'd have missed out on that much without them. I've used the HOV lane just as often, honestly, to 'show off' the white stickers