states to tax hybrids bevs

[apvbguy]

http://blog.gasbuddy.com/posts/More-states-scheme-to-tax-hybrids-to-recover-lost-tax-revenue/1715-560682-2206.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Randy]

A $50 annual fee in Colorado that will help maintain the road structure for all vehicles (including electric ones) is very fair...If/when they decide to implement something like that in California, I will support it fully. We should pay our fair share for roads no matter what kind of car we drive....

 

[GlennD]

I will avoid paying for the infrastructure as long as possible. Really, we should match what the ICE people pay. Skating for free is an overlooked current perk. I like it but it is not really fair.

 

[apvbguy]

A $50 annual fee in Colorado that will help maintain the road structure for all vehicles (including electric ones) is very fair...If/when they decide to implement something like that in California, I will support it fully. We should pay our fair share for roads no matter what kind of car we drive....

would you be ok if the fee was extended to bicyclists?
how about pedestrians?

 

[essaunders]

The fee really should be miles times damage done to road. In reality, damage to road is strongly related to weight. Pedestrians and bikes probably are light enough that collection costs would be higher than fees collected.

The scheme needs to be applied to all vehicles.

 

[davidcary]

While pedestrians don't damage the road/sidewalk, there is a real cost to building sidewalks (and bike lanes).

Building a sidewalk and then maintaining it costs money and should be billed to pedestrians. It would be shocking how much this would cost in some areas (low density).

The same is true for light cars. They require just as much road spaces as heavier cars so require that just as many lanes and miles of highway be built and maintained. Even though they don't wear the road down, there is still a large cost that is not weight dependent.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Here in Taxachusetts, the DPU is investigating how to add a "fuel tax" to EVSE usage, public and home. Thinking ahead to a gas free world!

If you buy gas, it's pretty simple, the tax is part of every gallon bought.

Public EVSE can't charge by the kWh here, so that would change. But what about home? If they meter one 120 outlet, will people just use another and claim they charge at a public EVSE?

What about solar, do we pay tax on our own kWhs? How about regen?

If we take a walk, will they tax our feet? Taxmaaaaaaaaaaaan

 

[cgaydos]

A $50 annual fee in Colorado that will help maintain the road structure for all vehicles (including electric ones) is very fair...If/when they decide to implement something like that in California, I will support it fully. We should pay our fair share for roads no matter what kind of car we drive....

A percentage (40%?) of that is supposed to go to charging infrastructure.

But the real reason this was included in a package of pro-EV stuff (including improving the tax credit) was as a pre-emptive strike against anti-EV voices who were complaining that EVs weren't supporting the roads because their drivers don't buy carbon-based fuel.

 

[cgaydos]

While pedestrians don't damage the road/sidewalk, there is a real cost to building sidewalks (and bike lanes).

Building a sidewalk and then maintaining it costs money and should be billed to pedestrians. It would be shocking how much this would cost in some areas (low density).

The same is true for light cars. They require just as much road spaces as heavier cars so require that just as many lanes and miles of highway be built and maintained. Even though they don't wear the road down, there is still a large cost that is not weight dependent.

There is truth there. HOWEVER, consider bike lanes that take commuter traffic off of the freeway. The cost of those lanes is more than offset (*much* more) by the reduced wear-and-tear on the main roads, plus the benefits of lower congestion. It is easy to justify paying for those bike lanes out of freeway funds such as the gas tax.

 

[ksnogas2112]

just tax all cars and be done with it. would cut down seriously on the monitoring of a small percentage of vehicles.

 

[XeonPony]

I have no issues about paying tax, the second they are actualy spent on the F^%$ing infastructure and not berucratic icompitence and pocket lining as has been exceedingly proven with the glourious neo con idiots in power in Canuckistani here!

 

[davidcary]

While pedestrians don't damage the road/sidewalk, there is a real cost to building sidewalks (and bike lanes).

Building a sidewalk and then maintaining it costs money and should be billed to pedestrians. It would be shocking how much this would cost in some areas (low density).

The same is true for light cars. They require just as much road spaces as heavier cars so require that just as many lanes and miles of highway be built and maintained. Even though they don't wear the road down, there is still a large cost that is not weight dependent.

There is truth there. HOWEVER, consider bike lanes that take commuter traffic off of the freeway. The cost of those lanes is more than offset (*much* more) by the reduced wear-and-tear on the main roads, plus the benefits of lower congestion. It is easy to justify paying for those bike lanes out of freeway funds such as the gas tax.

Perhaps - but they have to be pretty heavily used lanes. Suppose they cost 1/2 a car lane - they would need to be as packed as the car lane assuming they travel at 1/2 the speed. Anywhere in the US where that is true in rush hour - maybe Portland. Certainly not here. And you would certainly have to average in the rainy day traffic in that bike lane.

Around here, they offset less than 1% of rush hour traffic. Significantly less than 1%. So the subsidy for the bike riders is absolutely enormous. Taxing EVs is fair but so is taxing bicyclists and pedestrians. Since taxation is never close to 100% fair, we probably should just call the gas tax a pollution tax and leave it at that.

 

[tps]

Maybe they could tax cars based on odometer reading. Not sure how they would collect it, maybe part of the registration process.

Right now, given the lack of infrastructure, I think they still need to have the incentive for EV drivers that they don't pay highway tax to help EV adoption.

 

[davewill]

... What about solar, do we pay tax on our own kWhs? ...

I'd think so. People who produce their own bio-diesel (at least in CA) end up paying taxes on it if they use it as motor vehicle fuel.

http://www.boe.ca.gov/sptaxprog/faqbio.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I still think we should just shift to a weight*miles type fee, paid yearly...but not until we lower gasoline usage significantly.

 

[ydnas7]

ever calculated the road damage that commuter makes by taking the bus. its comparable to a car.
http://www.pavementinteractive.org/article/equivalent-single-axle-load/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

there are severe social justice issues by accurately taxing according to fair use/damage of roads. Freight cost skyrockets and buses would be even more subsidised. The good news would be that passenger car fuel tax would go down, leading to more current account deficit.

Like most sin taxes, its a regressive tax, the poor would pay most, the rich would pay least.

 

[Pipcecil]

I agree we should pay some tax to suppor the infrastructure, but it needs to be proportioal to how everyone else is paying. Adding a flat tax rate is grossly unfair, epsecially to those that drive their EVs less. IF the current tax is gallons used, then, the most fair is "gallons" used based off the car's average MPGe. Take Texas, full gas tax (fed+state) is ~34 cents a gallon. If a leaf driver is driving 15,000 miles a year, that comes to just over $50 per year. Punishing EV owners by adding $100 or something is insane. Some small high MPG cars will spend less than that, but the state has to spend money on air quality programs to offset the emissions of the gas car, making the profit off those cars less - with EVs that money for air quality programs would not be needed.

You also get into a problem with plug-ins. If you aren't taxing hybrids (some states just want to tax BEVs), how do you handle a volt? A person with a Volt could essentially pay no tax or very little depending how often they fuel up. My wife fuels her volt every 6-8 weeks @ 7 gallons a pop. That only comes out to ~$15 of gas tax she is paying per year, but another volt owner could use more fuel, so this throws the whole system into disarray.

The BEST method is VMT - vehicle miles traveled. You pay for the amount of miles you use. Simple. No matter how efficient your car is - you drive more you pay more. You could add a weight gradation into the formula if you want.

As for the weight and roadway damage, although I am not directly involved in pavement design and longevity, I have work with numerous reports on pavement damage and the causes. The weight difference between car types (large cars, small cars, EVs, non-EVs) is negligable - even on roadways experiencing high traffic (250,000+ vehicles per day). So negligable it can't even be calculated. The smallest difference we can even account for is with larger pick-up trucks. Although we can calculate they do more damage, the increase is extremely small and only shows on roadways with high traffic. This difference is small enough it could be noise in the calculations, so we dismiss it. The real difference is medium and heavy trucks, especially heavy trucks. This are the boys that do ~75% of the damage to any roadway but usually account for ~5% of all the traffic. Its very disproportional. But because of the way things are, its impossible to get a larger tax on those large trucks (too many unions, too much tied to shipping infrastructure, etc.). So, in reality, regular vehicles of all types cause the same amount of roadway damage, yet we pay for a greater portion than we actually cause to compensate for the damage from the trucks.

 

[Graffi]

A $50 annual fee in Colorado that will help maintain the road structure for all vehicles (including electric ones) is very fair...If/when they decide to implement something like that in California, I will support it fully. We should pay our fair share for roads no matter what kind of car we drive....

Please forgive my lack of accurate up-to-date information, but some years back I remember reading in an article that the gas tax collected for roads was spent something like this:

90% of Californians pay the Road Tax when they purchase gas.
80% of that money was spent on Public Transportation for the people that are not buying gas.

So if you want to pay your fair share then the state should cancel all fuel tax and let us all (including Public Transit and Gov Vehicles) that use the roads pay for that infrastructure.

The only problem is that no politician will vote to repeal a tax once they have it. They only want more.

 

[RonDawg]

Maybe they could tax cars based on odometer reading. Not sure how they would collect it, maybe part of the registration process.

In states that have some sort required of inspection program, very easy to do, just record it at inspection time. Some may already be doing just that.

CA has smog check in most (but not all) counties but it's every other year, and the first 5 years are exempt, as are some types of vehicles including (obviously) BEVs.

 

[planet4ever]

80% of that money was spent on Public Transportation for the people that are not buying gas.

It's actually about 90% for roads and 10% for public transportation. And remember, people riding a bus take less space on the road than if they were driving a car. People riding a train don't take any space on the road, nor do cause any wear and tear on the road. So money spent on public transit reduces your road congestion and makes the money spent on road repair go further.

Ray

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

By switching from my last ICE to a LEAF, I save ~$240/yr from paying no fuel excise tax. That's nice, but as more and more EVs replace ICEVs, I'd still like roads and bridges maintained.

The three options I've seen so far are: a flat yearly fee, a fee based on milage, a fee based on kWhs from the wall or EVSE.

I think a yearly fee would be easiest to administer.