Should I even bother buying a Leaf?

[robodude]

I'm sold on EV technology. Currently I drive an '09 Honda Fit which has been a great car. I estimate I'm spending about $100 a month on gas. Before I bought my Honda Fit, I came very close to buying a Prius but I couldn't justify the added cost of $7k over the price of the Fit at the time.

I'm now seeing '13 Leaf's going for around the same price I paid for my Fit! If I sold my Fit, it will take a few years to recoup so I'm wondering if I should even bother.

My dream car is a Tesla but I typically do not spend over $25k for a new car so I doubt I actually buy one.

Should I wait until my Fit dies or should I take advantage of the lower prices for used Leafs...or even the Federal tax credit and get a new one?

We have a mini-SUV as a gas backup so I'm not concerned about the range, though I do want 70 miles at least.

 

[beachfitrob]

There are 80 Nissan Leafs on cars.com under $15,000. I've saved $1000 in the last 7 months. Drove it almost $12k so far this year.

You do the math.

 

[pkulak]

Mini-SUV? Is that a Mazda5?

If I had a Mazda5 sitting there for any time I needed to drive a long distance, I'd sell the second gasser and go electric. 70 may not be a total given, depending on the car you buy and were you live, but I'd still go for it.

 

[wongfeihong187]

How far will you be driving round trip? Check with your insurance to see if your premium will go up by purchasing a Leaf. Also determine how much your electric bill is right now per kw, and if you're like me in San Diego, we pay the most per kwh. Bottom line it's your own decision. However it's just a great feeling to drive a car that you don't have to fill up every one or two weeks or have to change oil every three or four months (or brakes every two years).

 

[LeftieBiker]

Your range requirement is too high for a used Leaf. Either lease now or buy a used Leaf in several years - or both! If you lease a '15 now you can always buy it off lease.

 

[robodude]

It's a CR-V...more like a compact SUV. My daily range is about 20 miles or so. I don't think the range is an issue for me since we will drive the gas car for longer rides. But most trips are nearby and will save gas.

I've never leased a car before so you'd have to explain why this makes sense vs just outright buying.

I'm reading that the 2012 and older Leafs have different batteries than the 2013 models? I'm thinking no older than 2013 if this is a big deal.

 

[dhanson865]

I'm reading that the 2012 and older Leafs have different batteries than the 2013 models? I'm thinking no older than 2013 if this is a big deal.

If you are in a cool part of the country (somewhere that uses heat more than AC) a 2011, 2012, or 2013 will have no difference in battery that you care about.

It takes a 2015 Leaf to get the new different battery and that only matters in the hotter areas of the country.

 

[robodude]

I'm in Alabama and it does get pretty hot here.

 

[pkulak]

The battery really only changes for the 2015. Since you're just going to be using it for around town stuff, you're pretty free to do whatever you like, really. I would just find some 2012 SL for cheap, that way you're not stuck in a two or three-year lease. If your requirements change in a year, you can just sell the thing. Learn how to test the battery; it's about the only part in the car that can degrade and effect the value. Since you're in Alabama, you're going to see a lot of used Leafs (well, are there any Leafs in Alabama?) with seriously degraded batteries. If that bothers you, lease a new one. However, nothing can be lower than 70% capacity since Nissan would replace that battery under warranty, and even that is enough for jotting around town, provided you get a killer deal on a car with such a shot battery.

 

[rogersleaf]

It's a CR-V...more like a compact SUV. My daily range is about 20 miles or so. I don't think the range is an issue for me since we will drive the gas car for longer rides. But most trips are nearby and will save gas.

I've never leased a car before so you'd have to explain why this makes sense vs just outright buying.

I'm reading that the 2012 and older Leafs have different batteries than the 2013 models? I'm thinking no older than 2013 if this is a big deal.

I have both a CRV and a Leaf, the CRV is basically parked in the garage and rarely gets driven. Don't misunderstand, the CRV is an excellent vehicle that I enjoy and would not consider selling. It's just @ 10X more expensive to drive compared to the Leaf. At more than 2K miles/month, this makes a huge difference. On your mileage, doubt you would save anything by replacing an older high-efficiency car like a Fit with a Leaf. Ownership of a new car is not going to be cheaper, it's going to be better. Having driven a Fit, it's a skateboard compared to a Leaf.

With a Leaf, leasing has 2 advantages:
1). Leasing is the most immediate way to take advantage of the EV Fed Tax credit.
2). If the EV technology turns out to be dud over time or the resale value takes a dive, leasing provides an out with minimal risk of loss. If it's a winner, then exercise your purchase option it at the end of the lease. Note also that most new Honda products have a CVT transmission with a big unknown on durability. Most likely if I had acquired another Honda Civic, it would also have been a lease until some mechanical history was built on their transmission design.

 

[LeftieBiker]

If you are in a cool part of the country (somewhere that uses heat more than AC) a 2011, 2012, or 2013 will have no difference in battery that you care about.

Sure, as long as the original driver didn't use the car in 85+ degree weather, or didn't overheat the pack with lots of hot charging, and the buyer doesn't either. No problem! ;-)

The original poster first wrote that he wanted 'at least 70 miles range' and then, later, that range isn't important. Which is it? 70 miles in Summer is 35 miles in frigid weather. It's also about 35 miles of freeway driving in hot weather.

 

[robodude]

So what are the differences between the 2012 Leaf and say the 2013-14 besides the battery? I'm sure some other minor changes were made. I thought the range and battery life expectancy increased with the 2013.

I'm not sure I can stomach a lease. Most leases I've seen are $200 a month with about $2500 down. That's $7,300 I won't have anything to show for after 2 years...but lots of fun and enjoyment of course.

You guys are very helpful by the way.

 

[abasile]

So what are the differences between the 2012 Leaf and say the 2013-14 besides the battery? I'm sure some other minor changes were made. I thought the range and battery life expectancy increased with the 2013.

The biggest difference is that you can get a 6 kW charger on the 2013/2014 for faster charging at home or at public Level 2 charging stations.

The 2013/2014 heater uses a heat pump and should be more efficient, but then again, the AC is reportedly a bit less efficient.

I'm not sure I can stomach a lease. Most leases I've seen are $200 a month with about $2500 down. That's $7,300 I won't have anything to show for after 2 years...but lots of fun and enjoyment of course.

In your shoes, I'm pretty sure I'd try to get a good deal on a used 2011/2012. As long as you don't pass 60 K miles / 5 years before the battery pack degrades "four bars" (down to about 66%), you should be eligible for a replacement pack from Nissan.

 

[Kubla]

you do not get the big charger or the Heat pump heater in the base "S" trim

 

[LeftieBiker]

I leased a 2013 SV with $2k down (plus $1k NY tax) and pay $149 a month, which I can extend past 24 months if I like (and I will). Zero down is safer, but a deal like mine can also pay off

 

[pkulak]

I'm not sure I can stomach a lease. Most leases I've seen are $200 a month with about $2500 down. That's $7,300 I won't have anything to show for after 2 years...

2012 Leafs are going for about 12-14 grand right now. That's about 10 grand in depreciation that anyone who bought back then wouldn't "have anything to show for". Buying a new car and making payments isn't much different from leasing, if the lease isn't terrible. If may feel like your paying down a loan, but you're really just barely outpacing the depreciation. I have the option at the end of my lease to buy the car for $16,000, which is actually very close to what I'd owe on a loan if my payments were the same as my lease. The difference is, if I don't want the car, or it's not worth anything near that, I can walk away.

One big knock on leasing is the mileage. If you need to put 50,000 miles a year on it, don't lease. But I'm only going to go over by 2,000 miles tops, which will cost $300. Or exactly as much as gas would cost if I drove those 2,000 miles in a car that get's 27mpg, which is pretty close to what the Fit gets in the city, I think. And you can buy the miles upfront for $0.10, which I should have done. That brings the overage miles into Prius gas replacement territory.

 

[JohnBike]

you do not get the big charger or the Heat pump heater in the base "S" trim

The mid-year 2014 S model has a 6.6 Kw charger, but the heater is still a resistance coil.

 

[robodude]

Great points on the lease. If you buy you may loose all the "value" anyway. I have a lot of thinking to do. But I'm not sure I want the slow charger. I can probably live with a 120 volt at home if it can charge within 8 hours.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Great points on the lease. If you buy you may loose all the "value" anyway. I have a lot of thinking to do. But I'm not sure I want the slow charger. I can probably live with a 120 volt at home if it can charge within 8 hours.

All Leafs charge at the same rate at 120 volts, because that's below the maximum rate of even the "little" charger. L-1 charging adds 5% charge per hour, so 8 hours will add 40%. If you have used 40% that will "refill" it. If you used more, it won't.

 

[nerys]

oddly enough I suggest you see if you qualify for a FIT EV.

insanely nice car (what I originally wanted for the included comprehensive collision insurance and unlimited miles)

if you have the credit for it (very high standard of credit to get it my 700 score was not enough!!)

this way you pay almost nothing for it ($80 over what your paying in gas) and in 2 years its their problem not yours and the tech should be improved enough for you to make a decision to go all in or not on your next EV if you decide you like it.

if there is enough equity in your current fit to offset the cost a year old low miles leaf might also be an option.

I question whether you can save any money with an EV. at $100 a month your not really using much fuel at all. (I spent almost twice that a WEEK) $8700 a year in fuel so the leaf made a ton of sense to me financially.