Purchasing a 2013 SV Outright: Questions

[grumbles]

Hi,

I recently test drove a 2013 and fell in love. What a car! We were previously looking at Mazda3 and Honda Fit hatchbacks, but I'm hoping the Leaf is the right fit for us. Hoping to get some opinions on our exact situation.

1 (Purchase options): We're looking to buy a car outright. Lease or loan is not an option for us right now. We're going to be applying for home mortgages in the next few months and we're concerned that starting a lease would have a significant negative impact on our otherwise excellent credit histories and debt-to-income ratio.

2A (Current location, commute): My commute right now is 24 miles roundtrip on surface streets. Stop and go driving in 35MPH or 55MPH zones. Seems like perfect driving conditions and distance from work. I just started this job about a month ago, but it's a great fit and I hope to be here for many years.

2B (Future Location, commute): We're looking to buy a house nearby where we rent, so overall mileage shouldn't increase dramatically anytime soon. In all likelihood my daily commute won't be exceeding 40 miles round trip. Absolute worst case scenario, round trip commute will be 60 miles.

3 (Free Electricity): My work's parking garage has 12 free charging stations via Chargepoint. They are generally under-utilized, and I get in early enough that I'm willing to wager I'd get a charging stall everyday for the next few years.

4 (Secondary Car): My wife has a pretty reliable 2001 VW Golf with 100k miles that she isn't currently using for commute. That is likely to change when we buy a house. She'll end up driving to the park and ride stop she currently walks to.

5 (Climate): We live in Portland, Oregon. Just moved! Seems like an great climate for longevity, with very few summer days reaching 90+ F. Our future house will likely have a garage where it can be kept indoors on hot days.

6 (Purchase Price): There's a dealer near us that has a few Leaf SV with Quick Charge, 12k miles for about $13,500 - $14,000. Haven't been in yet to try negotiating price so let's just assume the final sale price is $14,000.

I'm estimating my annual mileage will be around 8,500.
Work: 260 days x 25 miles = 6500
Weekend: 52 weeks x 40 miles = 2080
Total = 8580

My main concern is the cost to replace the battery outside warranty. Assuming the battery is in good shape at the time of purchase (I'll definitely be checking that out with Leaf Spy), I believe my driving habits, commute conditions, and overall mileage will ensure the battery outlives the warranty. I've seen a few threads here quoting new battery packs out of warranty could cost $10k+ !

The situation I absolutely don't want to enter into is needing to spend $10,000 on a new battery in 6-8 years. I hold onto cars for a while, only now letting go of my 2001 VW GTI with 180k miles.

Thank you all in advance for your opinions/feedback.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Your current commute is indeed ideal, but as you extrapolate, that 60 mile worst-case scenario is indeed worst-case. If it's in Summer you will struggle to manage it, and if it's in Winter you won't make it without charging at work.

 

[grumbles]

Good to know that 60 mIles round trip would be pushing it in winter. It would be annoying to charge at work and at home, but certainly not impossible in my current position.

I'm so ready to pull the trigger on it, but am just concerned about that battery replacement should it be needed shortly after warranty expiration.

Would it be unrealistic to expect a 2013 battery to hold out until 2023 (85-100k miles)?

 

[DuncanCunningham]

3 (Free Electricity): My work's parking garage has 12 free charging stations via Chargepoint. They are generally under-utilized, and I get in early enough that I'm willing to wager I'd get a charging stall everyday for the next few years.

And don't forget to be a conscientious EV'er and move the car once it is charged as a good example to others, even if no one else has a EV at the time.

I think you are a perfect fit for this car and will totally love it and the savings it will bring. Enjoy!

I believe, and I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, that batteries are more like $5,500 range and hopefully will only get more affordable as time and technology moves along.

 

[grumbles]

Thanks for the tip about moving it when not charging. There were plenty of spots this morning, but I just walked through the parking garage on lunch and only 3 of the 12 spots are available.

I got the $10,000 figure here http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=13549&p=310959#p310959, but news stories from 2013 report $5,500 plus labor. Not sure which is more accurate.

 

[billg]

Thanks for the tip about moving it when not charging. There were plenty of spots this morning, but I just walked through the parking garage on lunch and only 3 of the 12 spots are available.

I got the $10,000 figure here http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=13549&p=310959#p310959, but news stories from 2013 report $5,500 plus labor. Not sure which is more accurate.

Here's a real life example of purchasing a new battery:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=14102&start=580#p438439

I guess you could spend $10k - if you didn't shop around.

 

[RonDawg]

Several folks have reported that they were able to negotiate deals on the 2015 Leaf S for around $12k or so after all government incentives are factored in. I don't know what incentives if any the state of Oregon gives for EV's, but if you can somehow cover for the short term that incentive as well as the $7500 Federal tax credit (which you won't be able to get back until next tax season), you'll find having the new car to be more enjoyable. You won't have to worry what degradation the battery has, and you'll get the newest chemistry, plus you'll have a full warranty.

Another possibility is to lease the car anyway, which will get the $7500 Federal tax credit immediately credited to you. You can then turn around and buy out the lease a month or two later, so that the payments won't affect your payment to income ratio. You'll only have to cover whatever state and local incentives are available to you (if any) until those come in the mail.

With news that the 2016 Leaf SV and SL will have a larger battery, I suspect that you'll be able to find a great deal on an unsold 2015 equivalent, especially if it's still around after the 2016's show up at dealers. The SV and SL will get you a more power efficient heating system along with some feature upgrades.

 

[grumbles]

Thanks again for all the info everyone. Seems like my fears of having to replace to battery at $10k were unfounded. Phew!

It really does sound like the car would be a perfect fit for us right now. Assuming the battery can hold out for 6+ years, we'd likely save money over a ICE vehicle. Thanks everyone!

 

[DuncanCunningham]

Thanks again for all the info everyone. Seems like my fears of having to replace to battery at $10k were unfounded. Phew!

It really does sound like the car would be a perfect fit for us right now. Assuming the battery can hold out for 6+ years, we'd likely save money over a ICE vehicle. Thanks everyone!

We have two Leaf's right now. We sold our very aged Honda CRV and Honda Insight (Gen1), had over $200k on each and they were on the limit with major repairs turning up here and there. We were spending about $200 on gas each month and that is with Gas being as cheap as it is right now, less than $3 gallon. Now we spend about $30 in additional Electric at home as we always charge at home. Since you'll be charging at work, you'll save even more.

Think of all the parts that your car no longer has that could break. Exhaust, fuel, air, cooling, electric system to run the engine, emissions etc.. all gone. Just the shell of the car with a motor, charger and batteries. yes yes, I know there are many other things to a EV car but thousands less parts to worry about. Just the battery as the high cost as this car will age very well. Hopefully batteries will improve with costs going down as the years pass.