mbender said:
- The $7,500 federal tax credit is worked into the lease, which is why payments are as low as they are. If you buy (new), you have to 1.) have a federal tax liability of at least $7,500 to get the full value and 2.) wait until next year's tax season to get it. But not with a lease!
- The $2,500 CA rebate comes within 2-3 months and only applies to 3 (or more) year leases.
- Side note: between the two, I was able to lease my S for roughly $200/month with effectively no down payment (it was $2,500, which I got back from the CVRP).
[*]I don't park on the street, but I park "ungaraged" and it hasn't been a problem. But if it's a dangerous neighborhood/street, it would be with any car, no?
[*]By shopping around, you should be able to find reasonable insurance.
[*]At the end of three years, the e-NV200 and many other options should be available to you.
Thank you for the input. I see that you can qualify for the cali rebate on a lease.
I am still unsure on the lease though. 200$/mo for 36 months = 7200$ What kind of down payment would the dealer ask for? I read someone getting a 'great deal' at 150$/mo with a 2k down payment. 150*36=5400 +2k down = 7400? So what kind of down payment would you be asked for a 200/mo lease? Is it possible to take out the 2015 lease with no down payment AND low monthly payments of $200 or less?
Also, at 7,200$+++ in 3 years (Lease) I still wonder if a 2013 leaf will depreciate by 7,200$(or more) over the course of 3 years worth of ownership? Though if you add the california rebate 2.5k?-10% (if tax deductible) 2250-7200= 4950$. Still about 5k. Would a 2013 leaf depreciate by 5k in 3 years? I have actually never leased a car, or bought one from a dealer, before so I don't know what other 'additional costs' they will slap on top of the lease. With a google search these came up:
Down Payment (Which appears to be 2,000$ from a few posts I read)
Security Deposit (Not sure how much this one will be? I'd consider this one eaten by the dealer at the end of the lease.
Acquisition Fee/Due at lease signing (Not sure how this one will cost either.)
Disposition Fee (Paid at the end of the lease when you return the car. Google says it could be $350)
Sales Tax (I think this is only applied to the down payment? 10%?)
Documentation/“doc” fees/Administrative fee (Google says $250 to $600?)
Also "Dealers often have fees such as “bank fees” or “prep fees” or “delivery fees” that are completely bogus and should be negotiated out of any car purchase or lease deal."
Am I missing anything? What are the associated costs for these?
knightmb said:
You are in luck, I actually have both (S and SV loaded 2013 model)
One of the most important things is to not let the range meter intimidate you. It's just pulling a guess on range based on recent driving conditions, so if you are driving up the side of a steep incline for a few miles, the range meter seems intimidating. The best thing about the 2013 models and later is that you can menu to the battery charge percentage and just use the trip mileage meter to mentally gauge how much range you have left. Both of my Leaf(s) are a couple of years old, but in city driving, I still get nearly 1 mile for every 1 percent of battery charge so you have to shift you mind from the days of driving the gas car where you just keep adding fuel to the mental state of driving an electric car because traffic can be minimized in your mental equation.
For example, today I drove nearly 110 miles in my leaf (made a stop at the QC to add about 30 percent to my battery charge). I had to visit 3 neighboring cities, some separated by 30 miles, others by 10 miles. Knowing where I was going, how far each trip is, the battery charge level of my Leaf, I had no range anxiety. I encountered some major and unexpected construction traffic going to my first city stop. I sat in stop and go traffic for nearly an hour, overall it had very little effect on my range for the day. I still got home with 18% charge when finished for the day and while mentally that seems like white knuckle driving, when I finally came back to my home city, I knew I only had 3 miles left to reach home (where I can recharge) and even though the rush hour traffic made it take nearly 40 minutes just to crawl that 3 miles, I wasn't worried that I might not make it and be stuck in the middle of the road because the old way of "time" thinking for gas vehicles is minimized greatly for EV driving.
I don't know if you have test driven a Leaf yet, but I drive mine just like any other previous gas vehicle. Be an efficient driver and the Leaf will respect you in return. :mrgreen:
Thank you for all of that previous info. I did test drive a leaf and I liked it very much. I also tested the spark ev which was really small and the I-Miev which was a little bigger, but still smaller than the leaf. I really want to try out the leaf, but I am unsure if I should lease of just buy a 2013 used
. I tend to drive slowly so I am sure the electric range will be extended. I also wanted to play around with that B mode which kind of sounded like a lot of fun >_>. I actually don't own GPS, makes me think it only helps out once or twice till you learn the directions, but sometimes when I go to a new place I have to take out my laptop and do google maps. I'm not so sure on the cruise control though it could be a nice rest for the light foot that I have lol.
RonDawg said:
Like cwerdna mentioned at the beginning, I would personally dissuade anybody who does not have either charging at home, or reliable workplace charging, from purchasing or leasing any EV other than perhaps a Tesla (and only if you live or work near one of their public charging stations). Public charging can be an iffy experience and becomes more iffy if you rely on it as your only charging source. You never know when one of those charging stations is being used, or is broken, or worst of all is "ICEd" (blocked in by a non-plug-in car). Free public charging stations can often be occupied for hours at a time. If you rely on pay charging stations, you might end up spending as much as gas for a relatively economical ICEV.
As much as I love having my Leaf, for persons like the OP I would more recommend an economical ICEV or hybrid rather than a pure electric.
Thank you for that info. I really would like to give the fully electric a try. My job has mostly me waiting for hours. Then I might have an hour to do a job somewhere then sit back out in the car. I could almost say I practically live in it. I have slept in it before. I could potentially wait until the ev clears or just get there really early, or even sleep close by on the street at night then top off in the early morning. It could work.... As I mentioned, most of the time I spend it 'waiting' for something to come up though I do have certain hours that are already 'pre-arranged' for me to do something for about an hour or two... then its all about waiting again. I wanted to try a prius, but the thought of saving money has been on my mind. I really could use the $ savings. I practically 'work' the whole day if you can call waiting around working lol.
One thing that could be a concern is paying as much as a hybrid with the ev if I use public charging stations. From the ergevgo the total per month for charging with them appears to be 100$. Would a prius have a cost of $100 a month if I do my usual 1200 miles? Unless I did the math wrong with the ev charging. I basically just made it so I charged everyday. someone mentioned I would only need to do it every 2-3 days. If so then it would be less than 100$.... Thoughts?
LeftieBiker said:
Free public charging stations can often be occupied for hours at a time.
And planning on doing this only makes the problem worse. Another vote for a PHEV, although the only one I know of that is efficient without regular charging is the Prius PHEV, which may not be available now.
Doing strickly free charging would be nice, but I don't mind paying for a charging station. the cheapest seems to be the ergnvgo at $1 per hour? The rest seemed to be at least 1.25. Anyway, if the ev costs me less than 350$ a month, which is what is what I spend in gas now with my van, then I think it still is worth it.
minispeed said:
Why not a volt? With the second gen coming out there are good deals now on the first version if you want to lease and it will probably bring down values on used cars at GM lots.
It will do 38 miles electric and with careful driving I know of one volt owner that gets up to 60 in city driving (the only volt owner I know). If you are willing to spend the time at the public chargers you'll be near 100% electric but when you can't or the S hits the fan, or general bad luck of ICE'd/broken/occupied chargers gets in the way you won't be screwed.
If you regularly drive past the all electric range of the volt then I know the PIP is cheaper to run but since most of your driving will be under 40 miles/day I think you'll find the volt cheaper to run.
I would guess since you're a van guy that you think it's too small but you can put an inch and a quarter hitch on it and tow a small trailer or use a cargo rack and or get a roof rack. Roof racks will limit your range on the highway a lot. On my optima the hitch mounted cargo rack behind the car actually improved aero and fuel economy as it fills the turbulent space behind the car. It may not do that on a volt though since it's been optimized for aero more than the optima probably was.
The downside is that it charges slower than the leaf so you're looking at approx. daily charging of 3 hrs instead of every other day at 4hrs (assuming a 6.6kW charge for the leaf).
It would depend on how much it costs me. I want to save 13k to get a used 2013 leaf. 13k for me before the end of a year is a bit of a feat in itself. If it costs more than that then I can't afford it. I'd love a tesla but I can't afford it. Though what I really want is savings. So if the ev gives me the most savings at the pump then I'd rather get the EV. I would actually prefer the quicker charger though just incase I am caught in a awkward situation and can only charge for so much. The leaf would charge quicker with out having to kick in the ice because it didn't charge enough.
For leasing I am still not sure. Would you be able to help me figure out what all the leasing fees will total out for?
Down Payment (Which appears to be 2,000$ from a few posts I read)
Security Deposit (Not sure how much this one will be? I'd consider this one eaten by the dealer at the end of the lease.
Acquisition Fee/Due at lease signing (Not sure how this one will cost either.)
Disposition Fee (Paid at the end of the lease when you return the car. Google says it could be $350)
Sales Tax (I think this is only applied to the down payment? 10%?)
Documentation/“doc” fees/Administrative fee (Google says $250 to $600?)
Also "Dealers often have fees such as “bank fees” or “prep fees” or “delivery fees” that are completely bogus and should be negotiated out of any car purchase or lease deal."
Am I missing anything? What are the associated costs for these?
I still wonder if the total to lease for 3 years will be less or more than the depreciation of a 2013 leaf in the same time span
.