Pre-Heating without Timer

[jjeff]

... I unplug car(if it were plugged in) push the timer override button in car, plug car back in and finally turn car ON ...

I think I can save you some walking back and forth. On my 2016, I can unplug and replug the cable, and then get in the car and push the time override button. Does it work that way for yours?

Also, in mine, in this situation the dash says I can't drive away because the car is plugged in. So, even if a thief unplugged and got in, he wouldn't be able to drive away.

My quick test showed that the SOC dropped slightly while charging/heating, so I guess I don't have to worry about the dreaded "topping off" battery damage (right? Someone reassure me).

Here's a neat thing: Once my phone is connected to the ODB2 dongle via bluetooth, then even when the phone is outside the car in the charger box, it stays connected. I can just step into the garage to check the status:

I will try that tomorrow morning, my way is kind of a pain having to get in and out of the car but if I tried skipping steps it's failed in the past, but again I'll give it a shot tomorrow, only going to get colder here
How many amps is your EVSE? if your losing charge it must be 20a or less? I'd find it hard to believe your car would lose charge hooked to a 30(27.5a) EVSE.....I could and do see it with my 16a and 19a EVSE.

 

[PianoAl]

Yes. ClipperCreek LCS-20P - 16 amp EV Charging Station.

 

[arnis]

Using the timer I'd be lucky to get a luke warm interior because it uses 100% fresh air and a very fast fan speed(almost max). It also loses several(+5%) SOC even when plugged in and using the max EVSE the '12 Leaf will allow, 16a@240v

Newer Leaf keeps recirculation pretty much always on. Switches to fresh air after 15 minutes for a while to purge moisture.
Uses up to 3000W for PTC. Therefore doesn't drain battery noticeably at 16A 240V.

Are you sure it is in fresh mode always? You can check for airflow easily outside the vehicle.

 

[jjeff]

Using the timer I'd be lucky to get a luke warm interior because it uses 100% fresh air and a very fast fan speed(almost max). It also loses several(+5%) SOC even when plugged in and using the max EVSE the '12 Leaf will allow, 16a@240v

Newer Leaf keeps recirculation pretty much always on. Switches to fresh air after 15 minutes for a while to purge moisture.
Uses up to 3000W for PTC. Therefore doesn't drain battery noticeably at 16A 240V.

Are you sure it is in fresh mode always? You can check for airflow easily outside the vehicle.

I did a timer pre-heat this morning and indeed when I got into car about 1/2 way through the pre-heat(just to check on things) it was in full recirc(recirc button on as well as A/C button, although the outside condenser fan was not spinning so it may have not actually been on due to extreme cold temp(-10F this morning)). Neither of my Leafs have the heatpump for heating, they are strictly resistive and the '12 shows up to 6Kw draw, the '13S doesn't have a screen to show me Kw. I do know that neither will retain battery charge hooked to a EVSE 16a@240v or less but my '13 will keep the charge with a 19a EVSE and gain charge with a EVSE outputting more than 19a @240v.

Oh and PianoAl, I also tried just pushing the timer override button(not cycling the J1772 connector) and low and behold it did allow heat while plugged in not sure why it didn't when I tried it previously :?

 

[Reddy]

1 below F this morning and left for work with a toasty interior
Using the timer I'd be lucky to get a luke warm interior because it uses 100% fresh air and a very fast fan speed(almost max). It also loses several(+5%) SOC even when plugged in and using the max EVSE the '12 Leaf will allow, 16a@240v, it just can't keep up with the heater. Using pre-heat without a timer I only drop a percent or two SOC, what I do:
Have car fully charged, about 1/2hr before departure I unplug car(if it were plugged in) push the timer override button in car, plug car back in and finally turn car ON(hold down break pedal and push power button). I turn heat on(also need to have A/C pushed as at least on the '12's you won't get heat when plugged in if you don't) and select floor and face for mode. I enable 100% recirc(this is the key) and set fan about 60% speed and temp 74. About 25 min later I get in car(which is nice and toasty) and change mode to floor and windshield(which disables recirc). Note if I didn't do this the windows would probably be a bit frosty. 5 min later I unplug, push power button down again while holding brake and leave with a toasty car, even in sub zero temps
Note none of this is required with my '13 with it's 6.6kw charger, it can heat full and even add to SOC while heating. It also can manage some decent heat while on 100% fresh air, at least to zero F, -20F or colder may require playing with the recirc which again only works when no air is being directed towards the windshield, that turns OFF recirc.

Ok, just a quick update from my latest fiasco. I've been using the above referenced method once in a while (with my 2011 lousy resistance heater, 3.8 KW charger) and found that sometimes it didn't work (and I could never figure out why). So yesterday I was charging at the dealership. Since it was charging, I thought I'd use it as an opportunity to preheat. I pressed the brake and the start button once, turned up the heat to 90F, and tada it was heating (confirmed by looking at the energy graph). I also noticed that I was fully charged to 12 bar (which obviously looks goofy on a 10 bar car). Then ONLY 2-3 min later, the heater turned OFF. The dash said "- - minutes to 100%" and all charging stopped. So, moral of the story, the older 2011 Leaf MUST BE CHARGING (battery not previously filled to 100%) for the heater to be running with this method. I very cold temps (like MN above), it is entirely possible that the full 3.8 KW is going into heat and no charge is going into the battery. In my case yesterday, the temps were only in the 20's and probably less than 3.8 KW was going to the heater, so some of the excess went into the battery which was already full, and hence shut down everything. It doesn't make sense to me, but that's what I observed. Take if for what it's worth, but it does explain why a friend in Seattle (milder temps) wasn't able to do this manual pre-heat method after charging to 100%).

 

[arnis]

Any Leaf must be charging for heater to work.
Heater never works with battery contactor disconnected.

All LEDs are lit when preheating. And they are not functional.
Recirc is not activated in warm weather.

 

[PianoAl]

I appreciate learning about how to get the car to heat with power from the wall, but I've compared that method with putting a ceramic heater in the car, and the latter wins (for me).

Reasons?

1. The space heater trick is actually easier. I just plug it in and put it on the floor of the driver's seat.
2. It only uses 1.5 kW instead of the 3-4 kW when the car's heater is on ($.20 per heat-up vs $.50 per heat-up. Yes, I'm a penny-pincher).
3. I don't have to worry about any potential problems of topping off.

 

[arnis]

kW is the rate. Using 1kW for 30 minutes is the same as using 3kW for 10 minutes. It is 0.5kWh in both scenarios.

Leaf has recirculation ON for 15 minutes if it is cold outside.

 

[PianoAl]

kW is the rate. Using 1kW for 30 minutes is the same as using 3kW for 10 minutes. It is 0.5kWh in both scenarios.

Excellent point.

I know that with the space heater, 100% of the energy is going into heating the car. With the car-only solution, is that true?

 

[PianoAl]

And here's how I know when the heating is done:

 

[jjeff]

-20F this morning When I turned the Leaf on the dash display was very slow to cycle through the modes, like it was moving through molasses. My '12 started out at only 85% even though it was set for 100% although I normally only get it to go to ~90%(due to it's degraded battery) so maybe cold also affects the top SOC??? Anyway after 30 minutes of full recirc plugged it the car was barely luke warm(but better than -20F!) and charge was down to 71% I didn't have far to go so I was OK with it but wouldn't have if I needed to go any distance. The windows were a bit frosty so as soon as I took off I pushed floor/defrost which turned off any recirc. Took 20% to go 6 miles which if my math is correct would mean only a 20 mile range Damn EVs, at least very limited range EVs like our Leafs are sure not meant for crazy cold temps, although my ICE Prius would probably only be getting teens or low 20s for MPG but at least it holds 10+ gallons for ~200 mile range which is much better than 20 :shock:

 

[arnis]

kW is the rate. Using 1kW for 30 minutes is the same as using 3kW for 10 minutes. It is 0.5kWh in both scenarios.

Excellent point.

I know that with the space heater, 100% of the energy is going into heating the car. With the car-only solution, is that true?

You have old Leaf? Then heating element is under the hood I believe. That most likely
is a loss on its own. New Leaf has PTC air element in the heating box in the cabin.
Loss should be very small, most likely below 2%.
As soon as recirculation phase is over there is a lot of "inefficiency". But that has its purpose.
You need to get moisture out.

New Leaf runs in recirculation for 15 minutes and then switches to fresh for some.
Specific data available in the technical manuals.

 

[BrockWI]

Yup same here, we have about a 35 mile range right now with the heat set to floor / windshield and set at 80F and at a fan speed of 2, this makes the cabin tolerable, maybe 50F inside the car. It doesn't help that the roads are all snow covered either with the snow tires as well.

 

[JohnBike]

Been reading all these posts and wondering why I can't seem to get a '14 Leaf S to pre-heat.

Being retired, it makes no sense to use the timer, plus, the '14 S has no "timer override switch". I have tried every configuration described in the previous posts, but no heat, not even after waiting 5-10 minutes. The only time I did get any indication of heat was in full AUTO mode on the AC, set to 75F. The floor vents were blasting, since AUTO cranks up the fan, but the air was on full flow-through in a 40F garage, so there was no real heat in the cabin; just a wisp of heat near the floor vents. If I select recirc,, the AUTO turns off, but so does the heat

Unless someone coughs up a magic bullet, I'll go back to draining 2-3% of the battery to get the cabin to a temperature that will avoid a butt-chewing from the lovely lady in the passenger seat.

 

[jjeff]

Been reading all these posts and wondering why I can't seem to get a '14 Leaf S to pre-heat.

Being retired, it makes no sense to use the timer, plus, the '14 S has no "timer override switch". I have tried every configuration described in the previous posts, but no heat, not even after waiting 5-10 minutes. The only time I did get any indication of heat was in full AUTO mode on the AC, set to 75F. The floor vents were blasting, since AUTO cranks up the fan, but the air was on full flow-through in a 40F garage, so there was no real heat in the cabin; just a wisp of heat near the floor vents. If I select recirc,, the AUTO turns off, but so does the heat

Unless someone coughs up a magic bullet, I'll go back to draining 2-3% of the battery to get the cabin to a temperature that will avoid a butt-chewing from the lovely lady in the passenger seat.

Having a S model you should not need to engage AUTO or AC to get heat. How I'd do it would be as follows:
Go out to car and plug it in, push timer override button(all Leafs should have a timer override button, it's the one with the icon of a clock near the button to open up the charging port) and push power button while your foot is on brake pedal. It's important to first plug car in and not start car first and then plug car in, doing so will turn off the heater. Turn on the climate control(middle of the left circle) and make sure HEAT is lit, set fan speed you want and mode to what you want, I'd suggest floor and defrost or floor only. You should have heat shortly, then plug Leaf in if you want. Car will drop out of drive mode but still be ON. Lock car with either remote or outside door handle button and head back into house, 20?? minutes later go out to car, unplug and repush power button while holding down brake pedal, your car should be nice and warm and you can drive off.

 

[PianoAl]

I've used my space-heater system many times for preheating, and its works great and is convenient.

I've added an extension cord that comes down from the ceiling (where the garage door opener plugs in). It takes only seconds to put the heater on the floor of the car and plug it in.