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drees said:
Phxsmiley said:
Unfortunately, I had a recent job change and would like to keep the car longer, but it is running near the end of it's usable life for me. I usually keep my cars much longer than this.
It's running near it's usable life because of lack of range?

It's crazy that you've gone through two packs in less than 5 years and 73k miles. That Arizona heat!

IMO this is a case where you should have received a lizard pack given what was stated publicly and given that the settlement stated that you should have received a battery with the latest, aka lizard, tech.

Yes, the original batteries from Japan do not last in the Phoenix heat. Other aspects of the car make it great for driving in this climate. As I said before, the lizard battery in my 2015 is holding its capacity much better. I will know more in another year.

Gerry
 
To clarify, yes the issue with the car for me is usable range. As GerryAZ mentioned, other aspects of the car work so well here in AZ, including the stellar A/C, the pre-cooling (until 2G goes away), low maintenance cost, and of course, Arizona HOV lane access, which has become a great option for me with my current job.

I definitely plan to keep this car if I can get a replacement battery from Nissan. It is pretty well documented (in the press, anyways) that Nissan promised the original AZ owners (who had to replace their battery early) a Lizard battery (available in 2015) via a 'voucher' that we would receive. None of us have yet to receive a voucher.

I would suspect that I'm one of a very few owners who are in this situation. I'll keep this forum up to date when I find out something.
 
phxsmiley said:
My 2011 Leaf just dropped it's 4th BAR this past week, with LeafSpy reporting the following:

GIDs: 184
SOC: 94.6
KWh: 14.3
AH: 40.99
Miles: 73,401

What's unique here is that I might be the first one posting 4BL on their 'second' battery. My battery was replaced in 2013, before the 2015 batteries were available.

The car still functions well, except for the capacity loss of course.

Ugh! Sorry to see this. I just lost bar 3 on battery two this week. Hang in there!

Edit: just read the remainder of the thread. Please keep us updated on the voucher / '15 replacement. I will probably be in the same boat by the end of August.
 
Our LEAF lost its second capacity bar on Saturday. The garage was in use so the LEAF sat out in the hot sun (highs of 90F) the entire week.

Here is some further information:

Loss of second capacity bar:
Date: Jun 11, 2016
Odometer: 33,691 miles
Capacity: 51.25 Ah
Miles since first bar: 9195 miles
Years since first bar: 1.18 years
Capacity change: 2.76 Ah
Rate of capacity change: 2.33 Ah/year
Capacity change per 1000 miles: 0.3 Ah/1000 miles
Actual percent capacity loss: 22.66%
Percent capacity loss predicted by Stoaty's model: 17.68%

Loss of first capacity bar:
Date: Apr 6, 2015
Odometer: 24,496 miles
Capacity: 54.01 Ah
Miles since in-service: 24,496 miles
Years since in-service: 3.52 years
Capacity change: 12.24 Ah
Rate of capacity change: 3.476 Ah/year
Capacity change per 1000 miles: 0.5 Ah/1000 miles

First capacity measurement:
Date: Sep 8, 2013
Odometer: 13,877 miles
Capacity: 59.18 Ah
Miles since in-service: 13,877 miles
Years since in-service: 2.00 years
Capacity change: 7.07 Ah
Rate of capacity change: 3.535 Ah/year
Capacity change per 1000 miles: 0.51 Ah/1000 miles

Purchase:
Date: Mar 16, 2012
Odometer: 2,011 Ah
Capacity: ?

In-service (as demo vehicle):
Date: Sep 29, 2011
Capacity: 66.25 Ah (Assumed)

Manufacture:
Date: June 15, 2011

For reference, here is a plot of my LEAF's capacity since I began monitoring it on September 28, 2013 (almost exactly two years after the in-service date):

Battery_Capacity20160612.png
 
Lambtron said:
Car Purchased 04/04/15 @ 18500 miles w/ 12 Bars indicated. car built 7/11. #6977.
No Spyleaf info available at the time.

Lost first bar 07/05/15. 21455 mi.
207 gids
90.8% soc (100%)
51.1 AHr
16 kWh
77% SOH
59.26% Hx
393.90 V

Lost second bar 07/09/15. 21580 mi.
207 gids
91.3% soc (100%)
50.82 AHr
16 kWh
77% SOH
58.62% Hx
393.81 V

Lost third bar 01/13/16. 26495 mi.
198 gids
95.6% soc (100%)
46.35 AHr
16 kWh
70% SOH
49.91% Hx
393.4 V

Sure seems odd to loose two bars so close together considering the 1st bar should have dropped at a much higher SOH. If I were to guess your car had already lost 1 or 2 bars and then was reset back to 12. If I were you I'd find the in service date so you know when the 5 year capacity warranty is going to run out and then drive it hard to push things along so you can gaursntee yourself a new pack under warranty.
 
QueenBee said:
Sure seems odd to loose two bars so close together considering the 1st bar should have dropped at a much higher SOH. If I were to guess your car had already lost 1 or 2 bars and then was reset back to 12. If I were you I'd find the in service date so you know when the 5 year capacity warranty is going to run out and then drive it hard to push things along so you can gaursntee yourself a new pack under warranty.

Absolutely...losing those first 2 bars so close together is a classic example of an instrumentation reset.
 
Stanton said:
QueenBee said:
Sure seems odd to loose two bars so close together considering the 1st bar should have dropped at a much higher SOH. If I were to guess your car had already lost 1 or 2 bars and then was reset back to 12. If I were you I'd find the in service date so you know when the 5 year capacity warranty is going to run out and then drive it hard to push things along so you can gaursntee yourself a new pack under warranty.

Absolutely...losing those first 2 bars so close together is a classic example of an instrumentation reset.


I was at my Nissan dealer last month for my 30K mile checkup. The Nissan warranty will end Aug 5 2016. They requested I come back within a week or two before the EOW date for a free battery check. I was told that the extended Carmax warranty "should" cover the battery as it is considered a drive-train part. (Insert grain of salt here.) Until then I'm racing the clock. I'm at 44.86 Ahr as of today. However we are having a lot of 100*+ temps.
 
Lambtron said:
I was at my Nissan dealer last month for my 30K mile checkup. The Nissan warranty will end Aug 5 2016. They requested I come back within a week or two before the EOW date for a free battery check. I was told that the extended Carmax warranty "should" cover the battery as it is considered a drive-train part. (Insert grain of salt here.) Until then I'm racing the clock. I'm at 44.86 Ahr as of today. However we are having a lot of 100*+ temps.

Don't like to be the bearer of bad news, but there's no way in h*ll you will drop another couple of AHr in less than 2 months. I would start investigating that CarMax warranty, because I would be surprised if it covers a $6k battery pack (if such a thing is even in their vocabulary).
 
Stanton said:
Lambtron said:
I was at my Nissan dealer last month for my 30K mile checkup. The Nissan warranty will end Aug 5 2016. They requested I come back within a week or two before the EOW date for a free battery check. I was told that the extended Carmax warranty "should" cover the battery as it is considered a drive-train part. (Insert grain of salt here.) Until then I'm racing the clock. I'm at 44.86 Ahr as of today. However we are having a lot of 100*+ temps.

Don't like to be the bearer of bad news, but there's no way in h*ll you will drop another couple of AHr in less than 2 months. I would start investigating that CarMax warranty, because I would be surprised if it covers a $6k battery pack (if such a thing is even in their vocabulary).

That's exactly what I'm thinking. The traffic out here is so heavy, there is no way to even help it along. It seems like it lost most of it's oomph when I babied it but now I just drive it as I drive my ICE. This battery is a hard nut to crack!
In the event I miss the warranty it will be interesting to see how long I can milk the battery for my 30 RT mile commute each day. It's all good. You roll the dice and live with the results.
 
Lambtron said:
Stanton said:
Lambtron said:
I was at my Nissan dealer last month for my 30K mile checkup. The Nissan warranty will end Aug 5 2016. They requested I come back within a week or two before the EOW date for a free battery check. I was told that the extended Carmax warranty "should" cover the battery as it is considered a drive-train part. (Insert grain of salt here.) Until then I'm racing the clock. I'm at 44.86 Ahr as of today. However we are having a lot of 100*+ temps.

Don't like to be the bearer of bad news, but there's no way in h*ll you will drop another couple of AHr in less than 2 months. I would start investigating that CarMax warranty, because I would be surprised if it covers a $6k battery pack (if such a thing is even in their vocabulary).

That's exactly what I'm thinking. The traffic out here is so heavy, there is no way to even help it along. It seems like it lost most of it's oomph when I babied it but now I just drive it as I drive my ICE. This battery is a hard nut to crack!
In the event I miss the warranty it will be interesting to see how long I can milk the battery for my 30 RT mile commute each day. It's all good. You roll the dice and live with the results.

Well don't give up yet. What's your current LEAFSpy rating? Based on the January one you need to lose about 1% SOH a month which isn't unheard of, especially if you push it hard.
 
QueenBee said:
Lambtron said:
Stanton said:
Don't like to be the bearer of bad news, but there's no way in h*ll you will drop another couple of AHr in less than 2 months. I would start investigating that CarMax warranty, because I would be surprised if it covers a $6k battery pack (if such a thing is even in their vocabulary).

That's exactly what I'm thinking. The traffic out here is so heavy, there is no way to even help it along. It seems like it lost most of it's oomph when I babied it but now I just drive it as I drive my ICE. This battery is a hard nut to crack!
In the event I miss the warranty it will be interesting to see how long I can milk the battery for my 30 RT mile commute each day. It's all good. You roll the dice and live with the results.

Well don't give up yet. What's your current LEAFSpy rating? Based on the January one you need to lose about 1% SOH a month which isn't unheard of, especially if you push it hard.

As of this morning I am at 44.80Ahr however SOH is still at 68%.
 
Lambtron said:
QueenBee said:
Lambtron said:
That's exactly what I'm thinking. The traffic out here is so heavy, there is no way to even help it along. It seems like it lost most of it's oomph when I babied it but now I just drive it as I drive my ICE. This battery is a hard nut to crack!
In the event I miss the warranty it will be interesting to see how long I can milk the battery for my 30 RT mile commute each day. It's all good. You roll the dice and live with the results.

Well don't give up yet. What's your current LEAFSpy rating? Based on the January one you need to lose about 1% SOH a month which isn't unheard of, especially if you push it hard.

As of this morning I am at 44.80Ahr however SOH is still at 68%.

Sad, nearly impossible to lose enough in the next two months. :( I'm glad you have a positive attitude as AFAIC you got ripped off, hard to know who did it but someone along the line definitely deliberately reset the bar gauge. I think this is an area where EVs will have to mature as they reach mainstream. A capacity gauge needs to be present and have similar restrictions as an odometer so consumers can be confident they know what they are buying.

In any case your LEAF will last nearly forever for a 30 mile round trip commute.
 
QueenBee said:
Lambtron said:
QueenBee said:
Well don't give up yet. What's your current LEAFSpy rating? Based on the January one you need to lose about 1% SOH a month which isn't unheard of, especially if you push it hard.

As of this morning I am at 44.80Ahr however SOH is still at 68%.

Sad, nearly impossible to lose enough in the next two months. :( I'm glad you have a positive attitude as AFAIC you got ripped off, hard to know who did it but someone along the line definitely deliberately reset the bar gauge. I think this is an area where EVs will have to mature as they reach mainstream. A capacity gauge needs to be present and have similar restrictions as an odometer so consumers can be confident they know what they are buying.

In any case your LEAF will last nearly forever for a 30 mile round trip commute.

I have the pix that Carmax used to advertise it and in them the car was at 11 bars on their lot after being purchased at auction. When i bought it ,it was at 12 however I never made the correlation as I knew nothing about these cars and fell in love with it after about 50 ft. of the test drive. (I was actually looking for an electric motorcycle). I still don't consider it a wash as it's been a hell of an education about EV's and I will continue to own it.
 
Search is hit or miss on here - so what are people being told when they are bringing in their older cars for a possible battery replacement? I'm looking at a 2011 with 52K miles on it and I've had two separate Nissan dealers, as well as Nissan's EV customer service rep, tell me that it is covered under the manufacturer's 8 year/100K mile defect. I looked up the 2011 Nissan Leaf warranty book and it clearly shows the battery being covered for 8 years/100K miles. There are some exceptions in there (like subjecting the car to over 120 degrees, fully charging the battery at all times, etc.) and are those what Nissan is using against people for the coverage? Does the car have monitors that can tell them these things? I'm confused....
 
The 8 year/100K mile warranty is only for drastic and sudden battery loss. It's not the 4 bar loss warranty which is 5 years/60K miles, which can result in a new battery if you've lost your 4th capacity bar before that milestone.

Yes, the car does have monitors for at least some of those criteria.
 
Yesterday (the longest and hopefully warmest day here in SoCal) was an appropriate day to drop the 10th bar.
Funny my notes (from reading others experiences) indicated this would happen around 47.3Ah/51.5Hx.

At 44003 miles when I noticed the missing 10th bar at a full charge the readings were 47.3238Ah and 51.52Hx.

I'm month to month on my lease at this point and no doubt I'll hit 8 bars before the warranty runs out if I can stand to live with the car that long.

I rented a 2016 Volt for a road trip from SoCal to Vegas for the weekend and best I can tell it has more EV range than my Leaf right now. (13.9-14.2kWh usable for the Volt). Over all very impressed with the car. So nice to be in a car with heavy regen via L shifter mode as well as with the paddle switch behind the steering wheel.. Even at a "full" charge!

On my first drive in the Volt I drove 50.8 miles on 10.9kWh with 16 miles left on the GOM.
On my second drive in the Volt (to Vegas) I drove 54.3 miles on 13.8kWh and 223.2 miles on 5.22 gallons of gas. Still has 1 mile on the GOM of EV range on arrival.
 
I am at about 55K miles, 44.01Ahr, 67% SOH, and 46%Hx.

I have another 11 months of capacity warranty but a little less than 5,000 miles of driving left before I exceed it. I REALLY hope I can get the battery worn down to qualify for the warranty replacement before Summer ends. :(
 
BradFoxUS said:
I am at about 55K miles, 44.01Ahr, 67% SOH, and 46%Hx.

I have another 11 months of capacity warranty but a little less than 5,000 miles of driving left before I exceed it. I REALLY hope I can get the battery worn down to qualify for the warranty replacement before Summer ends. :(

You're a lot more likely than me. 57869 miles and 45.074 AHr for me. I lost 1AHr/1000 miles in June. July/August is hotter so should be able to hit that, but that still only just barely gets me down to 43, which I think is too high. Was really shooting for 42.0 range. In NC summer, you'll probably get there in only another 2K miles I would guess.
 
lpickup said:
BradFoxUS said:
I am at about 55K miles, 44.01Ahr, 67% SOH, and 46%Hx.

I have another 11 months of capacity warranty but a little less than 5,000 miles of driving left before I exceed it. I REALLY hope I can get the battery worn down to qualify for the warranty replacement before Summer ends. :(

You're a lot more likely than me. 57869 miles and 45.074 AHr for me. I lost 1AHr/1000 miles in June. July/August is hotter so should be able to hit that, but that still only just barely gets me down to 43, which I think is too high. Was really shooting for 42.0 range. In NC summer, you'll probably get there in only another 2K miles I would guess.


Next weekend I will be leaving my Leaf parked in covered parking for about 3 weeks plugged in at 100% charge, then for about 3 weeks in September I will be away again and parked again. Still hoping sitting at 100% and hot will drag me down some. I'm going to see if a friend of mine in Raleigh will hold onto the Leaf for me. He has a Smart Electric Cabriolet and a home charger. His Smart ED is going in for service so timing would be perfect on his part. He told me he would quick charge me as much as he could and try to keep the pack hot.
 
BradFoxUS said:
Next weekend I will be leaving my Leaf parked in covered parking for about 3 weeks plugged in at 100% charge, then for about 3 weeks in September I will be away again and parked again. Still hoping sitting at 100% and hot will drag me down some. I'm going to see if a friend of mine in Raleigh will hold onto the Leaf for me. He has a Smart Electric Cabriolet and a home charger. His Smart ED is going in for service so timing would be perfect on his part. He told me he would quick charge me as much as he could and try to keep the pack hot.

I thought letting it sit at 100% charge would be "detrimental" to battery capacity as well, but in reality each time I have left it at 100% (or actually as close as I can get to 100% without actually being 100%) I have gained AHr. I think what is happening is that the battery rebalances whenever it is left parked (even when not plugged in). When at a higher SOC, the more effective the rebalancing is.

I was gone for the past week and left my car OUTSIDE, unplugged, at 2 bars. I lost 0.1AHr during that week (adding 0 miles to the car). I expect some of that will come back next time it sits at high SOC and rebalances.

At any rate, I would recommend you leave your car UNcovered if possible. And consider leaving it at low SOC, not high.
 
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