Phoenix metro-area

[turbo2ltr]

Just saw a white LEAF with the plate SHOCKD at the Wildflower bread company at the 101 and 17.

 

[HXGuy]

Ok another question, and I don't think it's been covered, as I read through the last 75 PAGES of this thread :shock: :lol: but how are you guys seeing the hot weather here in Phoenix affecting your range?

My wife and I both work from home and have two cars now, we are looking to replace one with the Leaf and keep the other as a long-range/weekend car. I live in the NW Valley (67th Ave & Happy Valley) so it's a bit out there but imagine using the Leaf for daily errands to clients (which are all in a 20 mile radius really), plus running to the store, the gym, etc but would also like to be able to make it to downtown Phoenix (52 miles RT) for example or even downtown Scottsdale (70 miles RT via the 101 or 62 miles via 101 then Scottsdale Rd).

 

[Gonewild]

I drive from 101 and Ray to 19th ave and deer valley rd every day to work RT 76 plus a run to the store on way home no problems. I drive in ECO and keep my speed at 62-65 no more.

 

[turbo2ltr]

It all really depends on how you drive. Gonewild drives 76 miles round trip for work every day from chandler (I think) to deer valley (ahh he beat me to the reply.). I have no idea how he does it. I've gone from Jomax/I17 to 10/202 (about the same distance, 75 miles, alll highway) but I drove like I had an egg under the go pedal. I was drafting trucks and doing 10 under the limit.

I make airport runs from jomax/I17 no problem. But don't expect to get very far once you get back. I17 northbound is uphill all the way.

With "speed limit" driving I get about 60-70 miles on a charge, which is mixed driving, but probably more highway. I'm also a leadfoot.

What is nice is that there is quite a few chargers around now, so sometimes you can plan it to charge while you do your thing. Check out http://www.plugshare.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[HXGuy]

75 miles is what I sort of had set in my mind as a max round trip route, so if I'm ever driving and I get to 37.5, then it's time to turn around. Seems like any destination that we frequently visit should be within our range...downtown Phoenix, Central Phoenix (Arcadia restaurants), North Scottsdale and Old Town Scottsdale, though that one is a bit of a stretch if you use the freeway, but on surface streets it should be fine.

Do you guys see better range in the non summer months? Or is this your guys' first summer driving the Leaf?

 

[turbo2ltr]

I've never really seen a different in range, but its rare that I drive to empty. I don't keep tabs on it very much. My guess since the A/C doesn't seem to affect range much, outside temp isn't going to affect it much either.

 

[HXGuy]

That's good to hear about the A/C. How about the batteries themselves and the high heat? Or are batteries more affected by cold rather than heat?

 

[HXGuy]

One other question...

I was looking at the Arizona Incentives for electric vehicles and while most I understand, I don't quite get this one...

Alternative Fuel and Alternative Fuel Vehicle (AFV) Tax Exemption
The Arizona use tax does not apply to the following: natural gas or liquefied petroleum gas (propane) used to propel a motor vehicle; AFVs, if the AFV was manufactured as a diesel fuel vehicle and converted to operate on an alternative fuel; and equipment that is installed on a conventional diesel fuel motor vehicle to convert the vehicle to operate on an alternative fuel. Recognized alternative fuels include propane, natural gas, electricity, hydrogen, and a blend of hydrogen with propane or natural gas. (Reference Arizona Revised Statutes 42-5159)

So what is this "Use tax"?

 

[SilverLeaf]

That's the auto registration tax. It costs about $100 for a five year registration (which I did when I purchased my LEAF last April). My registration is valid through 2016.

By the way, I get about 70-75 miles of range with 2/3 highway @70 and 1/3 streets @35. A/C seems to have a very small effect.

 

[HXGuy]

I thought the auto registration tax was this one...

Reduced Alternative Fuel Vehicle (AFV) License Tax
The initial annual vehicle license tax on an AFV is lower than the license tax on a conventional vehicle. The vehicle license tax on an AFV is $4 for every $100 in assessed value. The assessed value of the AFV is determined as follows: during the first year after initial registration, the value of the AFV is 1% of the manufacturer's base retail price (as compared to 60% for conventional vehicles); during each succeeding year, the value of the AFV is reduced by 15%. The minimum amount of the license tax is $5 per year for each motor vehicle subject to the tax. Recognized alternative fuels include propane) natural gas, electricity, hydrogen, and a blend of hydrogen with propane or natural gas. (Reference Arizona Revised Statutes 28-5805 and 28-5801)

 

[turbo2ltr]

Use tax is sales tax when you bough something without paying sales tax.

If you bought something out of state (i.e. like on the internet) technically you are supposed to pay use tax on it. No one does though.
For businesses, if I buy something tax exempt for resale, but the business ends up consuming it so it never gets resold, I have to pay use tax on it.

Doesn't apply if you already paid sales tax.

 

[HXGuy]

So how could this apply to an electric car?

Possibly if you buy the car out of state? Do you not have to pay sales tax then? Seems like it could be a pretty big discount.

 

[turbo2ltr]

If you are a car dealer that bought the car to sell but it became property of the dealer's business? I don't know.

B. The tax imposed by this section applies to any purchaser which purchased tangible personal property for resale but subsequently uses or consumes the property.

Go to the use tax section..
http://www.azleg.gov/ArizonaRevisedStatutes.asp?Title=42" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[RickS]

I just renewed mine for five years, $51 and some change. This is a left over from alternative fuels fiasco way back when, which was never reversed.

Far as I can tell AF plates they go by the normal license plate amount based on vehicle value, then throw in a 99% discount or $5/yr for the road tax portion, whichever is greater, plus the standard fees.

 

[kovalb]

I've never really seen a different in range, but its rare that I drive to empty. I don't keep tabs on it very much. My guess since the A/C doesn't seem to affect range much, outside temp isn't going to affect it much either.

My experience is that my range improves as it gets hotter, even with using the A/C. Please note that I always set the A/C to 60 degrees to prevent the heater from blending in. I also pre-condition the cabin whenever possible.

The winter reduced my range quite noticably. Even when not using the heater at all I could see a reduction in range due to lower battery temp. Even with 5 vs. 6 bars battery temp I could see a drop in my electric efficiency and range.

My average electric efficiency during my commute dropped as low as 3.5 miles/kWh when it was the coldest this past winter (usually 5 bars battery temp). It rose back up to about 4.5 after it warmed back up (6 bars battery temp). The highest it has been, for an extended period, was 4.6 (battery temp at 6 or 7 bars). That was when I got the car last September and ambient temps were running around 105 degrees.

 

[HXGuy]

Heads up guys...if anyone is interested, you can test drive the Ford Focus Electric tomorrow (5/17) from 9am - 11am at the Phoenix Children's Museum downtown. I know we're all Leaf fans here but could be cool to see what Ford's offering is like. I think I'm going to check it out.

http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/2012/05/16/20120516get-charge-test-drive-new-electric-ford.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[LEAFfan]

Your worst m/kW h will be in the fall/winter season. It's not just the battery pack being cold, but the denser air that you have to drive through. Also, if you have any crosswind or headwind, it will drop your m/kW h quite a bit. Despite what you may hear people say on here from other states, the summer heat's effect is negligible on your m/kW h. I recently drove in an efficiency rally in over 100 degree heat with only about 84% battery capacity and still hit 8.4m/kW h on the dash. I was able to drive 151 miles on one charge. If I had been able to have a full capacity pack, I could have driven 170 miles on one charge.
If I were you, I would make sure you lease an SL with the DCQC port, not buy.
The Ford Focus EV costs more, is made from an ICE, and has no DCQC port for Fast Charging. It doesn't even come close to a LEAF, but thanks for the info.

 

[Volusiano]

I just renewed mine for five years, $51 and some change. This is a left over from alternative fuels fiasco way back when, which was never reversed.

Far as I can tell AF plates they go by the normal license plate amount based on vehicle value, then throw in a 99% discount or $5/yr for the road tax portion, whichever is greater, plus the standard fees.

+1 here for <$51.

 

[HXGuy]

So I went and checked out the Ford Focus Electric demo this morning in downtown, wrote up a quick review here...

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8893" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also, a white Nissan Leaf pulled into the lot while I was there, had "Zero Emissions" on the side. Was it anyone here?

 

[RickS]

Anyone here the silver Leaf I have seen three times parked at the Manuels restaurant at 57th ave and Peoria?