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DATsunONE said:
I missed that law school lesson that said that patents are speculation.

The real fact is that, in US law, patents are presumed valid.
You are confusing the validity of a *patent* with the validity of the invention itself.
A patent is valid if nobody else patented the invention first and no prior-art can be shown to exist.
There is obviously no prior-art for this invention because IT'S A PHYSICAL IMPOSSIBILITY.

You'll get no argument from me that the US government currently views this patent as valid. It's sad, but true.

But please, don't let that stop you. Continue with your twisted logic. Fight the power!
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Not only Have I reviewed Flynn's work personally I have also utilized some of his concepts in my projects that I have in beta, I mentioned one here last year. My Unity+ turbine fan generators will give a LEAF a 5 to 105% range boost depending on driving speed. Projects like this must be kept low profile as too much attention causes scrutiny that can be destructive in the early stages.
 
about patents - seriously have you seen some of Apple's patents? For the touch screen showed a DRAWING OF A FINGER TOUCHING A SCREEN. Yup. Did it do ANY explanation HOW it would work. NOPE. And guess what? It got patented. Patents can be done just for ideas with no explanation of how or even if they would even work. Flynn doesn't have to prove at any point his stuff actually does anything beyond just an idea. All it does is protect the idea.

And from an economic point of view lets say he ACTUALLY made this work. And Nissan, in doing their research when the started stuff when and talked to him. WHY would Nissan not want to jump and buy this? How much MONEY would Nissan make selling an bazillion mile electric car for cheap? And furthermore why would Flynn NOT sell it. Inventors come in two types: philanthropist and money maker. As a philanthropist they want their invention to do good for the world, and if he even CARED about the world, this would have been released to EVERY COUNTRY AND SCIENCE JOURNAL EVER. But he hasn't, so he definitely isn't a philanthropist. So he is a money maker. And if what he has actually works, everyone, including Google, Apple, Exxon, China's mega bank, etc. would throw all their money at him billions++++. He would instantly become the richest person ever. But...he isn't.

So the only conclusion is: it doesn't work.

Corporations aren't stupid. They make money for shareholders so they can make more money and become rich. If this could have made Nissan money (and it definitely would have), they would have looked into it. They probably glanced at it a half a second, realized its BS or maybe they even talked to him at some point, still realized its BS and went on.

This is like every fantastical idea ever. I can claim I have a unicorn, I can even patent unicorn raising techniques. Every kid wants a pet unicorn so I would have lots of people trying to buy said unicorn and how I obtained it. But if I never sell it, never let anyone see it, and just talk about it - guess what? I am a liar. This is the ONE thing you have not considered DATsunONE - could Flynn be lying? In a world full of risk in which we try to get the most of, everyone always thinks about this. If you don't believe, even for a second, his stuff is full of crap and he is lying: give me a $100 right now, seriously. I will give you 500 acres of ocean-front property in Arizona. Right now. PM me. I will send you the title and everything. I will even patent my title deed because I now have a new electronic title that no one else has come up with. I will also throw in a unicorn ranch for an addition $50 bucks and build it myself because I raise unicorns.
 
I had a friend once, who was a real physicist, that insisted that, because he was a physicist he was an expert in the law. I didn’t have the heart to tell him just how truly delusional this supposition was. I highly recommend that, if you are a physicist, you don’t make the same foolish mistake my friend did. But, hey; you wouldn’t be the first physicist that made a complete fool of himself/herself in court, and you certainly won’t be the last one, either.

Like my law professor was fond of saying; there aren’t going to be any rocket scientists on the jury.

I direct the presumption that Charles Flynn’s US Patent #6246561, June 12, 2001, is valid against you and anyone else that chooses to challenge that patent for invalidity. The burden is on you to rebut that presumption but, as I previously proved, you can only do so in a US court of law.

Federal Rules of Evidence, Rule 301. Presumptions in Civil Actions Generally
In a civil case, unless a federal statute or these rules provide otherwise, the party against whom a presumption is directed has the burden of producing evidence to rebut the presumption.

Charles Flynn’s US Patent #6246561, June 12, 2001, because it is searchable and downloadable online with the USPTO, it is self authenticated. As such, that patent does not require any additional or outside (extrinsic) evidence of authenticity in order for it to be admitted into evidence or for the presumption of validity to be asserted.

Federal Rules of Evidence, Rule 902. Evidence That is Self-Authenticating
The following items of evidence are self-authenticating; they require no extrinsic evidence of authenticity in order to be admitted:
. . . .
(10) Presumptions Under a Federal Statute. A signature, document, or anything else that a federal statute declares to be presumptively or prima facie genuine or authentic.

Further;

Federal Rules of Evidence, Rule 901. Authenticating or Indentifying Evidence
(a) In General. To satisfy the requirement of authenticating or identifying an item of evidence, the proponent must produce evidence sufficient to support a finding that the item is what the proponent claims it is.
(b) Examples. The following are examples only — not a complete list — of evidence that satisfies the requirement:
. . . .
(7) Evidence About Public Records. Evidence that:
(A) a document was recorded or filed in a public office as authorized by law; or
(B) a purported public record or statement is from the office where items of this kind are kept.

If you or anyone else wished (past tense) to object to Charles Flynn’s US Patent #6246561, June 12, 2001, for being invalid, you had plenty of lawful opportunities to do so. Because you slept on your rights to so object, you can only object, challenge Charles Flynn’s US Patent #6246561, June 12, 2001, for being invalid, now, by doing so in a US court of law, as I previously proved, here.

USPTO
Trademark Process
Initial Steps
STEP 7:
File the application online through the Trademark Electronic Application System. View trademark fee informatio. REMINDERS:. . . (2) All information you submit to the USPTO at any point in the application and/or registration process will become public record, including your name, phone number, e-mail address, and street address.

STEP 11: USPTO Publishes Mark
If the examining attorney raises no objections to registration, or if the applicant overcomes all objections, the examining attorney will approve the mark for publication in the Official Gazette, a weekly publication of the USPTO. The USPTO will send a notice of publication to the applicant stating the date of publication. After the mark is published in the Official Gazette, any party who believes it may be damaged by registration of the mark has thirty (30) days from the publication date to file either an opposition to registration or a request to extend the time to oppose. An opposition is similar to a proceeding in a federal court, but is held before the TTAB. If no opposition is filed or if the opposition is unsuccessful, the application enters the next stage of the registration process.

STEP 13: Notice of Allowance Issues for Marks Based on an Intent-to-Use the Mark
If the mark is published based upon the applicant's bona fide intention to use the mark in commerce and no party files either an opposition or request to extend the time to oppose, the USPTO will issue a notice of allowance about eight (8) weeks after the date the mark was published. The applicant then has six (6) months from the date of the notice of allowance to either: (1) Use the mark in commerce and submit a statement of use (SOU); or (2) Request a six-month extension of time to file a statement of use (extension request).

A notice of allowance is a written notification from the USPTO that a specific mark has survived the opposition period following publication in the Official Gazette, and has consequently been allowed; it does not mean that the mark has registered yet. Receiving a notice of allowance is another step on the way to registration. Notices of allowance are only issued for applications that have been filed based on an intent-to-use a mark in commerce under Trademark Act Section 1(b).

Until you do so challenge Charles Flynn’s US Patent #6246561, June 12, 2001, in a US court of law, challenging it’s validity, and prevail on that challenge, Charles Flynn’s US Patent #6246561, June 12, 2001, will be deemed valid, for all intents and purposes. No other additional evidence need be submitted to support that legal conclusion of validity.

Again, I proclaim Charles Flynn’s US Patent #6246561, June 12, 2001, of his permanent magnet motors (four of them) legally valid, for all intents and purposes. See, top of page 19. The burden is on you or anyone else to prove otherwise and, you may only do so (credibly) in a US court of law. Any challenge to Charles Flynn’s US Patent #6246561, June 12, 2001, for invalidity, outside of a US court of law, such as the ones you have made here, are legally deemed incredible and irrelevant. No response to such incredible and irrelevant challenges is required. In law, they are garbage (to be ignored) and that is how I am treating them.

I gladly await your proper legal challenge, in a US court of law, to the validity of Charles Flynn’s US Patent #6246561, June 12, 2001. Until then, no defense to Charles Flynn’s US Patent #6246561, June 12, 2001, is required. Nor, shall one be given.

Dan
 
Merriam-Webster’s definition of “motor”: a machine that produces motion or power for doing work
1: one that imparts motion; specifically: PRIME MOVER
2: any of various power units that develop energy or impart motion

This is a judicially noticeable definition of the word "motor". Because this definition is common knowledge, I will ask the court to take judicial notice of it. Indisputable facts are not for the jury to decide.
 
1) The legal validity of the patent is not in dispute. Please stop whipping that strawman.

2) The technical validity of the patent is dubious, but ultimately is irrelevant because;

3) The patent does not describe a device capable of doing what you claim it can do.

=Smidge=
 
DATsunONE, you must be a lawyer not a physicist.

You are legally correct, as to the physics... not so much.

Even if it is legal to defy gravity good luck accomplishing it.
 
Ok here's the part I don't get - why would anyone bother to spend the time and effort of challenging a patent in court unless it had some value?

This one obviously doesn't which is why no one has challenged it.

Probably upwards of 80% of patents filed are invalid, worthless, or plain don't work. No one challenges them either. The bar is pretty low for getting a patent accepted by the Patent office.
 
DATsunONE said:
I had a friend once, who was a real physicist, that insisted that, because he was a physicist he was an expert in the law. I didn’t have the heart to tell him just how truly delusional this supposition was.
Then you should full understand why ...
DATsunONE said:
I direct the presumption that Charles Flynn’s US Patent #6246561, June 12, 2001, is valid against you and anyone else that chooses to challenge that patent for invalidity. The burden is on you to rebut that presumption but, as I previously proved, you can only do so in a US court of law.
...is so totally irrelevant.

The patent may be valid in law. It ain't valid in thermodynamics.

When the laws of humans challenge the laws of physics, humans lose. I heard they even tried to repeal Ohm's law, but there was too much resistance.
 
donald said:
DATsunONE said:
I had a friend once, who was a real physicist, that insisted that, because he was a physicist he was an expert in the law. I didn’t have the heart to tell him just how truly delusional this supposition was.
Then you should full understand why ...
DATsunONE said:
I direct the presumption that Charles Flynn’s US Patent #6246561, June 12, 2001, is valid against you and anyone else that chooses to challenge that patent for invalidity. The burden is on you to rebut that presumption but, as I previously proved, you can only do so in a US court of law.
...is so totally irrelevant.

The patent may be valid in law. It ain't valid in thermodynamics.

When the laws of humans challenge the laws of physics, humans lose. I heard they even tried to repeal Ohm's law, but there was too much resistance.

Good one:) Probably even funnier in a yoga studio.
 
Smidge204 said:
1) The legal validity of the patent is not in dispute. Please stop whipping that strawman.
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2) The technical validity of the patent is dubious, but ultimately is irrelevant because;
Dubious? DUBIOUS?
Dubious gives it too much credit.
Dubious makes it sound like there's a slight chance that it could work.

In the meantime, I can't wait for DATsunONE's next story about how ignorance about the subject matter makes anything possible. We've heard about the physicist friend and his eight-year-old daughter. What other people will he drag out to defend the possibility of a perpetual motion machine?
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Op's a troll. (and not too bright either) ...and you guys keep feeding him.
Ignore him or keep the popcorn handy... :roll:

I'm enjoying the show... heh.
 
donald said:
When the laws of humans challenge the laws of physics, humans lose. I heard they even tried to repeal Ohm's law, but there was too much resistance.
LOL. I don't have concrete evidence that they tried the same thing with Faraday's Law, but I induced it. :lol:

As for the OP, I think "Dan" is just a certain Charles' nom de plume. ;-)
 
The Law of Gravity should be brought down, too.

There was a secret plot to overturn Avogadro's Law, until they discovered there was a mole.
 
Scientific theory, in the case of a legal challenge to the validity of PMGs, will not be allowed to be entered into evidence. This is because such evidence: is opinion testimony, and not fact; would not tend to allow one (a juror) to draw a reliable conclusion one way or the other, were competing scientific theories alone to be considered, on any issue of material fact; would be unnecessarily cumulative; could not establish any applicable material fact, at issue, even if allowed; is vague; is misleading; fails to address the issues before the court; is being presented insincerely and for ulterior motives, other than to reach the truth on the issues before the court; is being presented in spite of the fact that the presenter has full knowledge that such theories are false; is secondary to the empirical evidence available, on the issues; and, would contradict established empirical knowledge proving, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the contrary is true, even in the absence of a supporting scientific theory, or regardless of whether a scientific theory could be drawn to support that incontrovertible evidence.

If your so called scientific theories about patented PMGs aren’t going to be allowed by a court of law to be entered into evidence, because they are not relevant to any of the issues as to the validity of patented PMGs; well, they’re just garbage. Just as a court of law would, I’m going to throw them out into the trash, too.

You physicists really should get out more; like, maybe, taking a class or two in patent law.
 
DATsunONE said:
You physicists really should get out more; like, maybe, taking a class or two in patent law.
That's quite funny, really. How many patent lawyers hold patents, compared with physicist and engineers. (I have 3 to my name, and one provisional application - how many do you have?)

If you wanna talk the talk, try the walk first.

A patent can be challenged on whether it was properly 'enabled' when it was applied for, because a patent application that does not pass the enablement criterion should not have been granted. It would be very unusual to challenge on that, though, because there would be no point in bothering to challenge a patent if it is useless and is not enabled. The only circumstances would be if some additional 'piece' of knowledge or technology that was essential for the invention to work only came into existence after the patent was granted.

For example, if you gain a patent on hypersonic aircraft that can circumnavigate the earth in 3 hours but it can be later shown that you left out some key component without which the aircraft would not have worked, then your patent was not enabled and it could then be challenged.

In the particular word-fest that this thread has rambled on about, no-one will ever challenge this patent, nor ever seek to infringe on it, because it is only someone's thermodynamic fantasy and bears no relation to reality.
 
DATsunONE said:
Scientific theory, in the case of a legal challenge to the validity of PMGs...
In case it wasn't obvious, nobody here is challenging the legal validity of the patent.
We're saying that the invention itself DOES NOT EXIST and IS IMPOSSIBLE.

I
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this thread.

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