Official Tesla Model S thread

[RegGuheert]

I remind these folks that when the electric grid goes down, so do the gas pumps, then I get the, "oh, I guess that's true".

Not really. Around here, many filling stations have backup generators and can pump gas until they run out.

Congratulations to all who have managed to become gasless! Very cool! I cannot foresee that for us for well over a decade from now, if ever.

 

[GRA]

I remind these folks that when the electric grid goes down, so do the gas pumps, then I get the, "oh, I guess that's true".

Not really. Around here, many filling stations have backup generators and can pump gas until they run out.

Congratulations to all who have managed to become gasless! Very cool! I cannot foresee that for us for well over a decade from now, if ever.

Congrats to George, indeed. Here's wishing that those of us with more modest incomes will be able to say the same in not too many more years, hopefully more like five than ten.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Our storm we had in 96 shutdown power for most of the county and we quickly found out that only 2 stations in the county had a generator. I waited 4hours in line to get my 10 gallon allocation of gas

 

[cwerdna]

Tesla CEO: NYT review cost us $100M in value -- Bloomberg: (has a video interview)
http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-57571104-54/tesla-ceo-nyt-review-cost-us-$100m-in-value-bloomberg/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I was originally thinking of posting this in the Brodergate thread, but he actually talks a lot more about than just Brodergate.

 

[tbleakne]

We made our first long distance trip in our 85kw Model S this weekend. Over the holiday weekend we put 1050 miles on the car and traveled from the Los Angeles area to the Grand Canyon and back. >>>>>>

We then drove 216 miles to Kingman AZ. We stayed overnight at the Kingman KOA in a cabin and charged on a 50A RV circuit. The next morning we headed to Williams AZ via Route 66 had lunch checked out the local area, had dinner and relaxed a bit. We stayed in another Cabin at the Williams KOA an charged on a 50A circuit. >>>>>>>>

Total cost for fuel $14.00 ($0.013 per mile)
Total cost for lodging $90 (3 nights)

Congratulations on a great adventure. An elevation profile of your Barstow-to-Kingman leg shows 1K ft rise at 80 miles, 2K ft fall to river, 3K ft rise to Kingman. What were your remaining miles showing at Kingman ? This leg does not look safely doable non-stop with a Model-S/60, but perhaps one could get several hours of charge at a RV park near Needles. There is a KOA north of Needles.

Charging all night while staying at KOA cabins seems like a good charging solution for a full Tesla fill-up in 9-10 hours at 40A. Does the cabin come with a 50A plug, or did they provide free access to a 50A plug at an adjacent unused parking space ? KOA is now showing $50/night for basic cabin, $99/night for deluxe cabin, so perhaps you got an off-season price.

While staying at a typical motel in Brawley, CA, I evaluated the charging possibilities, and they did not look promising. The guest laundry room had gas drying, no 240V. The manager was not present, but I received permission to inspect the main motel laundry room, which was down a corridor adjacent to offices (long cable), and the machines appeared to be hard-wired without outlets. I know EV drivers have received permission to charge at motel laundry rooms, but it would seem most managers would be extremely reluctant to leave their offices open all night .

The guest rooms had 6-20 240V outlets for the heat-pumps, but I would be reluctant to leave my door open for the cable, exposing the room to the outside air and noise. 20A outlet, 16A continuous, 3.3 kW would barely fill a 40 kWh battery pack in 11 hours, much less a 60 or 85 pack. I would welcome any comments on this assessment.

 

[mitch672]

The guest rooms had 6-20 240V outlets for the heat-pumps, but I would be reluctant to leave my door open for the cable, exposing the room to the outside air and noise. 20A outlet, 16A continuous, 3.3 kW would barely fill a 40 kWh battery pack in 11 hours, much less a 60 or 85 pack. I would welcome any comments on this assessment.

While a 6-20 is not as good as a 14-50 or 6-50, it's still more than twice as fast as a standard 120V 15A outlet (which is limited to 12A @ 120V). A 6-20 is capable of 16A @ 240V... You would have to build an adapter currently and turn down the charging current on the touchscreen - Tesla currently has no 20A UMC adapters.

 

[chris1howell]

Congratulations on a great adventure. An elevation profile of your Barstow-to-Kingman leg shows 1K ft rise at 80 miles, 2K ft fall to river, 3K ft rise to Kingman. What were your remaining miles showing at Kingman ? This leg does not look safely doable non-stop with a Model-S/60, but perhaps one could get several hours of charge at a RV park near Needles. There is a KOA north of Needles.

Charging all night while staying at KOA cabins seems like a good charging solution for a full Tesla fill-up in 9-10 hours at 40A. Does the cabin come with a 50A plug, or did they provide free access to a 50A plug at an adjacent unused parking space ? KOA is now showing $50/night for basic cabin, $99/night for deluxe cabin, so perhaps you got an off-season price.

While staying at a typical motel in Brawley, CA, I evaluated the charging possibilities, and they did not look promising. The guest laundry room had gas drying, no 240V. The manager was not present, but I received permission to inspect the main motel laundry room, which was down a corridor adjacent to offices (long cable), and the machines appeared to be hard-wired without outlets. I know EV drivers have received permission to charge at motel laundry rooms, but it would seem most managers would be extremely reluctant to leave their offices open all night .

The guest rooms had 6-20 240V outlets for the heat-pumps, but I would be reluctant to leave my door open for the cable, exposing the room to the outside air and noise. 20A outlet, 16A continuous, 3.3 kW would barely fill a 40 kWh battery pack in 11 hours, much less a 60 or 85 pack. I would welcome any comments on this assessment.

You are correct it would be hard if not impossible in a 60kw at a reasonable highway speed. I kept my speed on that leg to 65mph and arrived with about 20 miles remaining.

The cabins do not have 240v power, they just let me park in a close RV spot. The cabin price is in the "Hot Deals" section.

240V @ 20A would be better than nothing but you may have to stay 12+ hours depending on how dead you arrive. I actually slowed down the charge rate from 40A to finish at our planned departure time. It worked out very well, fully charged car with a warm battery...

 

[GeekEV]

We too will be completely gasless once our S arrives... Only about two weeks or so to go!

My VIN showed up in the Model S app yesterday afternoon, followed by an email from my delivery specialist that I could probably schedule for pick up next week. It's early!

 

[GRA]

Congratulations on a great adventure. An elevation profile of your Barstow-to-Kingman leg shows 1K ft rise at 80 miles, 2K ft fall to river, 3K ft rise to Kingman. What were your remaining miles showing at Kingman ? This leg does not look safely doable non-stop with a Model-S/60, but perhaps one could get several hours of charge at a RV park near Needles. There is a KOA north of Needles.

Charging all night while staying at KOA cabins seems like a good charging solution for a full Tesla fill-up in 9-10 hours at 40A. Does the cabin come with a 50A plug, or did they provide free access to a 50A plug at an adjacent unused parking space ? KOA is now showing $50/night for basic cabin, $99/night for deluxe cabin, so perhaps you got an off-season price.

While staying at a typical motel in Brawley, CA, I evaluated the charging possibilities, and they did not look promising. The guest laundry room had gas drying, no 240V. The manager was not present, but I received permission to inspect the main motel laundry room, which was down a corridor adjacent to offices (long cable), and the machines appeared to be hard-wired without outlets. I know EV drivers have received permission to charge at motel laundry rooms, but it would seem most managers would be extremely reluctant to leave their offices open all night .

The guest rooms had 6-20 240V outlets for the heat-pumps, but I would be reluctant to leave my door open for the cable, exposing the room to the outside air and noise. 20A outlet, 16A continuous, 3.3 kW would barely fill a 40 kWh battery pack in 11 hours, much less a 60 or 85 pack. I would welcome any comments on this assessment.

You are correct it would be hard if not impossible in a 60kw at a reasonable highway speed. I kept my speed on that leg to 65mph and arrived with about 20 miles remaining.

The cabins do not have 240v power, they just let me park in a close RV spot. The cabin price is in the "Hot Deals" section.

240V @ 20A would be better than nothing but you may have to stay 12+ hours depending on how dead you arrive. I actually slowed down the charge rate from 40A to finish at our planned departure time. It worked out very well, fully charged car with a warm battery...

I suspect they'll need to space the superchargers no more than 100-110 miles apart for the S-60, to allow for degradation and conditions, although desert with moderate to high temps and a couple thousand feet of elevation may allow that to be stretched to 140 mile or so spacing. Kingman to Williams is where it gets really interesting, as you've got about 3,600 feet of climb (top out at 6990') in about 110-115 miles. The S-60 would need to charge in Kingman for that climb.

The midpoint between Barstow and Williams is right about Topock, Az., 161 from Barstow and 167 to Williams. The S-85 could probably do it most of the time, but I expect the S-60 would only be able to make it when new under ideal conditions. I'd think all that climbing plus A/C use would overwhelm any advantages from thin air.

 

[ebill3]

My VIN showed up in the Model S app yesterday afternoon, followed by an email from my delivery specialist that I could probably schedule for pick up next week. It's early!

That's great, Geek. Based on my experience, suggest you "keep on" your person at Tesla. At the last minute I discovered mine, or someone, had dropped the ball and almost screwed up my planned delivery.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

congrats! they are cranking them out quickly right now, so be ready, they may just call when it arrives, like they did with mine! It set us scrambling but in some ways spared us of so many sleepless nights.

We too will be completely gasless once our S arrives... Only about two weeks or so to go!

My VIN showed up in the Model S app yesterday afternoon, followed by an email from my delivery specialist that I could probably schedule for pick up next week. It's early!

 

[tbleakne]

For those who have made the transition from LEAF to Tesla Model S, a question about braking/Regen.

I have seen mostly praise about the stronger Regen on the Model S allowing near 1-pedal operation and less loss from friction braking, but I worry about safety. I have spoken with a Model S owner who kept his foot over the accelerator too long when he saw an upcoming stop, and his delay in reaching the brake pedal caused a rear-end collision. I can understand his hesitancy to leave the accelerator, because that is where all the control of Regen is located.

With the LEAF's arrangement, I am switching my foot from accelerator to brake sooner, well before I decide I need maximum braking. I get mostly Regen when I apply the brake lightly. Because the brake pedal is tied to both Regen and the friction brakes, I often incur somewhat more friction braking than I really need. However, if there is a choice between efficiency and safety, I would rather choose safety.

During my Model S test drive I felt perfectly safe, but I didn't have any sudden braking situations. How do you Model S owners deal with the full range of light to heavy braking safely ?

 

[mitch672]

It's even trickier than you think, if the pack is "cold" your regen is limited, so there's a lot less of it when you take your foot off the accelerator. There is a "yellow dotted line" that shows up on the regen meter (it's part of the KW meter)... With that said, when slowing down you have to use good judgement as to when to switch to the brake pedal.. I generally do with a good safety margin, once I've matched deceleration speeds with traffic, I can usually let regen resume. It takes some getting used to, but I hardly use the brakes, just for the very end coming to traffic lights, for example.

 

[scottf200]

It's even trickier than you think, if the pack is "cold" your regen is limited, so there's a lot less of it when you take your foot off the accelerator. There is a "yellow dotted line" that shows up on the regen meter (it's part of the KW meter)... With that said, when slowing down you have to use good judgement as to when to switch to the brake pedal.. I generally do with a good safety margin, once I've matched deceleration speeds with traffic, I can usually let regen resume. It takes some getting used to, but I hardly use the brakes, just for the very end coming to traffic lights, for example.

That will seem strange if it is the same for me on the Model X. My Volt has no such oddity with the regen. I've driven one pedal in max regen (L) for 25K.

This picture and the follow post explains what you are referring too.
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/13681-Yellow-dotted-line-on-power-meter/page2?p=235212&viewfull=1#post235212" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[ebill3]

It's even trickier than you think, if the pack is "cold" your regen is limited, so there's a lot less of it when you take your foot off the accelerator. There is a "yellow dotted line" that shows up on the regen meter (it's part of the KW meter)... With that said, when slowing down you have to use good judgement as to when to switch to the brake pedal.. I generally do with a good safety margin, once I've matched deceleration speeds with traffic, I can usually let regen resume. It takes some getting used to, but I hardly use the brakes, just for the very end coming to traffic lights, for example.

Pretty much agree with mitch. It takes a bit getting used to.

Initially, it was love hate: loved not using the brakes and recapturing some energy; hated the abrupt slow down when releasing the accelerator, as opposed to the more gradual slow down with the LEAF.

Now I like it, and have adapted to modulating the pedal as opposed to "on or off".

In my dotage years, I have not been "hard" on brakes, and I'm quite certain my pads are going to last a very long time.

 

[GeekEV]

congrats! they are cranking them out quickly right now, so be ready, they may just call when it arrives, like they did with mine! It set us scrambling but in some ways spared us of so many sleepless nights.

I'm picking it up on Sunday! Woot! Woot!

 

[mitch672]

That will seem strange if it is the same for me on the Model X. My Volt has no such oddity with the regen. I've driven one pedal in max regen (L) for 25K.

I don't doubt it at all, you know what the big difference is between the Volt and the Model S?
The Volt has an ICE which it can (and does) use to heat the thermally managed (via liquid, same as the Model S) battery pack. The Model S doesn't have an external source of heat to keep the pack at optimal operating temperature.. So it uses an onboard heater and actually using power from the pack also warms it, the limited regen goes away within a few miles, depends on the outside temp really... I'll still stick with the Model S though, I have a Plug in Prius if I need to go beyond it's range.

 

[scottf200]

That will seem strange if it is the same for me on the Model X. My Volt has no such oddity with the regen. I've driven one pedal in max regen (L) for 25K.

I don't doubt it at all, you know what the big difference is between the Volt and the Model S? The Volt has an ICE which it can (and does) use to heat the thermally managed (via liquid, same as the Model S) battery pack.

That is a little misleading/confusing statement. It normally uses the battery to heat itself (battery). 2011/2012 the ICE may come on at 26F for a couple minutes for efficent cabin warming or in 2013s 15F or 35F based on config settings. If it is 27F and higher my ICE never comes on until the battery is fully drained/empty. I've been driving on battery only most days here in Chicagoland. The regen works consistently all the time.

 

[mitch672]

That is a little misleading/confusing statement. It normally uses the battery to heat itself (battery). 2011/2012 the ICE may come on at 26F for a couple minutes for efficent cabin warming or in 2013s 15F or 35F based on config settings. If it is 27F and higher my ICE never comes on until the battery is fully drained/empty. I've been driving on battery only most days here in Chicagoland. The regen works consistently all the time.

The Model S tries to keep its pack at 20F or above, it's been that or below in Boston (where I live) many times since I've picked up my Model S on 1/17/2013. The Model S has limited regen in colder weather, but it quickly goes away during the first several miles of driving, and that's just how it works. It also uses its electric pack heater to condition the battery before charging will start, using AC power, it also runs the pack heater to keep the batteries in operating range even if not connected to AC power. There is no ICE in a Model S to warm up the pack under any circumstances, they limit regen to protect the battery pack from damage. If you don't like it, don't buy it. The Model X is based on the same skateboard/chassis as the Model S, and will be exactly the same.

 

[scottf200]

That is a little misleading/confusing statement. It normally uses the battery to heat itself (battery). 2011/2012 the ICE may come on at 26F for a couple minutes for efficent cabin warming or in 2013s 15F or 35F based on config settings. If it is 27F and higher my ICE never comes on until the battery is fully drained/empty. I've been driving on battery only most days here in Chicagoland. The regen works consistently all the time.

The Model S tries to keep its pack at 20F or above, it's been that or below in Boston (where I live) many times since I've picked up my Model S on 1/17/2013. The Model S has limited regen in colder weather, but it quickly goes away during the first several miles of driving, and that's just how it works. It also uses its electric pack heater to condition the battery before charging will start, using AC power, it also runs the pack heater to keep the batteries in operating range even if not connected to AC power. There is no ICE in a Model S to warm up the pack under any circumstances, they limit regen to protect the battery pack from damage. If you don't like it, don't buy it. The Model X is based on the same skateboard/chassis as the Model S, and will be exactly the same.

I was just correcting your misinformation about the ICE coming on and trying to understand the regen aspect of the Model S. No reason for your don't like it, don't buy it attitude. I've been following *EVs for a few yrs. Thanks for clarifying the Model S and X don't come with an ICE. I put 5K down on the X and didn't do any research so I had no idea. Broder and I realize that the Model S heats the pack when not plugged in. The Volt does too. Seriously Mitch if I put money down on a Model X I'm a fan and have done my research. Patronizing me is not useful <grin>. Glad you are enjoying the Model S. I road in one a couple weeks back at a local EV club.