Official BMW ActiveE thread

[Valdemar]

Thanks guys for your support, I really need it now Thoughts of ESFLOW and i-3 crossed my mind as well, so at the very least the future looks interesting.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I went to the dealership today to show my adult son the A-E. He didn't fit in the backseat, and with him and I in the front seats, you aren't putting anybody but an infant in the backseats (only 2, LEAF has 3).

He pointed out what I already knew... no storage area, and limited backseat people area.

I bought 2 teak chairs tonight, with cushions, and hauled them and an 18 inch square container of Girls Scout cookies, my wife and daughter, and myself in the LEAF. It truly is a remarkable car.

I'm not sure this car will do what I really want it to do. I'd prefer, I think, a Rav4-EV, with even bigger battery, and bigger hauling capacity than the LEAF... plus 6.6 charger.

Next week, I'll be picking up the teak chest in the LEAF.

 

[Clippy]

I went to the dealership today to show my adult son the A-E. He didn't fit in the backseat, and with him and I in the front seats, you aren't putting anybody but an infant in the backseats (only 2, LEAF has 3).

He pointed out what I already knew... no storage area, and limited backseat people area.

I bought 2 teak chairs tonight, with cushions, and hauled them and an 18 inch square container of Girls Scout cookies, my wife and daughter, and myself in the LEAF. It truly is a remarkable car.

I'm not sure this car will do what I really want it to do. I'd prefer, I think, a Rav4-EV, with even bigger battery, and bigger hauling capacity than the LEAF... plus 6.6 charger.

Next week, I'll be picking up the teak chest in the LEAF.

I tried out my kids' car seats (Recaro Vivo, if you're keeping score) in the back and it seemed really cavernous back there. I didn't really note the leg room. Kids have a way of kicking the back of your seat even when seated in the third row of a minivan. They do fine work on airplanes, too.

I'd much rather have the Rav4-EV, but since Tesla (whose fans have a serious problem with the BMW, why I know not) is involved here, I think I'll wait see. The Rav4 price could be out of my league.

I expect my long term testing will confirm what I figured out on my 1/2 hour BMW test drive. That the Leaf is a very nice piece of work, in desperate need of an extra couple hundred pounds of battery.

 

[Boomer23]

I expect my long term testing will confirm what I figured out on my 1/2 hour BMW test drive. That the Leaf is a very nice piece of work, in desperate need of an extra couple hundred pounds of battery.

...and surefooted steering and handling. The A-E really makes that difference obvious.

 

[Clippy]

OK, OK. Which one of you guys did this?

Sounds about what I expected, though.

 

[ss0808]

OK, OK. Which one of you guys did this?

Sounds about what I expected, though.

Whoever it is childless or has grown children. I can't imagine telling my wife that I was going on a 49 mile test-drive and could she watch the kids for another two hours. :|

 

[TonyWilliams]

OK, OK. Which one of you guys did this?

Sounds about what I expected, though.

I cancelled my A-E order today. Several reasons, but number one is that I only expect a very small increase in range over the LEAF, for a big loss in utility. Plus, no $2500 from the state.

I did try and reply to the linked page, but it didn't work. Here's my post:

But for average, no-worry driving, I think 80-85 miles is quite do-able.
**NOTE** We were in Eco-Mode. If you remove Eco-Mode, est mileage in the cars computer drops by about 30%.

BTW, the customer was VERY happy about this. In his current Leaf, he is uncomfortable going over 60 miles on a full charge, and says 66 miles is pushing it to the limit.

I don't want to let one person's account of the 3350 pound LEAF to go unchallenged. The 4000 pound AC Propulsion converted BMW 1 series car with a 1/3 larger battery does not go 1/3 further than a LEAF.

The LEAF is not a 60 mile car either. It is EPA rated at 73 miles, and is reasonabe to expect over 80 miles for typical 60-65mph highway driving. By the way, that's not in ECO mode. You can click on my link to "Range Chart" to get an idea of what affects range, because they will largely be the same for the Active-E. Like the A-E, there are plenty of ways to make the mileage significantly worse than that.

One significant difference between the two cars (besides weight and battery size) is that the BMW batteries are actively temperature controlled, which should significantly reduce the affects of exceptionally cold weather driving.on the battery's capacity. The LEAF battery uses no heating or cooling whatsoever, except for a 300 watt heater that comes on at -20C to protect the battery from freezing at -30c.

http://www.LoveMyLEAF.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[KeiJidosha]

...I don't want to let one person's account of the 3350 pound LEAF to go unchallenged. The 4000 pound AC Propulsion converted BMW 1 series car with a 1/3 larger battery does not go 1/3 further than a LEAF...

Tony. The ActiveE has nothing to do with AC Propulsion. The drive is designed and built by BMW. It is a DC Brushless motor, same as in the LEAF. Not an Inductive drive as used in the t-Zero drive made by AC Propulsion.

http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/induction-versus-dc-brushless-motors

 

[TonyWilliams]

That's not what the BMW engineer associated with the project from the Bay area told us. In fact, he said it was essentially the same as the Mini-E arrangement with ACP.

Obviously, BMW was intimately involved with this, as they intend to use this drivetrain in the i3, probably with a significantly smaller battery.

Secondly, the LEAF is not a DC motor.

 

[ENIAC]

The drive is designed and built by BMW. It is a DC Brushless motor, same as in the LEAF.

The LEAF has an 80kW AC synchronous electric motor.

 

[Clippy]

I cancelled my A-E order today. Several reasons, but number one is that I only expect a very small increase in range over the LEAF, for a big loss in utility. Plus, no $2500 from the state.

I can understand why you would cancel. There are a number of unanswered questions concerning the ActiveE. The first being why would they be leasing the vehicle that contains the i3 prototype drive train for 24 months if the i3 is to be released next year.

I don't think the increase in range will be small. Even if it were, a small increase of the type described at TOS would make the vehicle far more useful for my family. I knew from day one (literally) that the Leaf would be basically a high speed NEV. To be able to park and cover the ICE vehicle we currently use for short road trips is well worth the cost of the Active E to me. I think the next 24 months will be interesting. I am growing less enamored of the Tesla solution and am becoming more attracted to a BEVx of the type that the i3 is purported to be.

I can't wait to get it. I stopped by my dealer to take another look today. It's delightfully prototype-ish. If we are to believe the rumors, the cars are here in CA. But then my Leaf took a loooong time to go from SoCal to Petaluma.

 

[KeiJidosha]

... There are a number of unanswered questions concerning the ActiveE. The first being why would they be leasing the vehicle that contains the i3 prototype drive train for 24 months if the i3 is to be released next year...

... I am growing less enamored of the Tesla solution and am becoming more attracted to a BEVx of the type that the i3 is purported to be...

ActiveE is designed to be a bridge to the i3. MINI E leases needed to be extended 3 times as ActiveE was later than anticipated. ActiveE leases will be eligible to trade up to the i3 when available. It is easier for BMW to shorten a lease (convert to i3) than to extend it.

i3 will be BEV only at release and BEVx 1-2 model years after.

 

[Clippy]

I cancelled my A-E order today. Several reasons, but number one is that I only expect a very small increase in range over the LEAF, for a big loss in utility. Plus, no $2500 from the state.

Very interesting long-drive results here.

For those of us in the middle of California, this could make the ActiveE a Bay Area commuter car. If you have access to a charger and a whole lot of nerve.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Not that impressive for a 32 or 33 kWh battery. I get 26.15kWh total useable from the following report. Obviously, until somebody runs one all the way to dead, we won't know for sure. It appears to me that they are using the same technique as GM did with the Volt, of a battery physically much larger that what you can use. What's different is that BMW is advertising it as the larger size, with a seemingly much smaller actual capacity.

For reference, our LEAF's 24kW advertised capacity battery can provide over 21kWh to the user (87.5%).
BMW ActiveE- 26.15 / 33 = 79.25%

3.8 miles per kw(h)
92 mile(s)
8% left on state of charge (so let's assume 100 miles range)
65 degrees and windy
75% on freeway at 75-80mph
25% on curvy country roads

100 / 3.8 = 26.15

 

[TonyWilliams]

If we are to believe the rumors, the cars are here in CA. But then my Leaf took a loooong time to go from SoCal to Petaluma.

Not a rumor. Most of the cars are physically at the port in Oxnard. You could fly over and take pictures of them.

Starting Feb 17, they will update the firmware on all the cars, and half will be shipped to dealers in Feb, and half in March.

 

[Clippy]

Not that impressive for a 32 or 33 kWh battery. I get 26.15kWh total useable from the following report. Obviously, until somebody runs one all the way to dead, we won't know for sure. It appears to me that they are using the same technique as GM did with the Volt, of a battery physically much larger that what you can use. What's different is that BMW is advertising it as the larger size, with a seemingly much smaller actual capacity.

For reference, our LEAF's 24kW advertised capacity battery can provide over 21kWh to the user (87.5%).
BMW ActiveE- 26.15 / 33 = 79.25%

3.8 miles per kw(h)
92 mile(s)
8% left on state of charge (so let's assume 100 miles range)
65 degrees and windy
75% on freeway at 75-80mph
25% on curvy country roads

100 / 3.8 = 26.15

If I can get 4.0kWh/mi on the freeway with a 26kWh pack (I never drive over 65 mph) I can get where I want to go with room to spare. With the Leaf I couldn't/can't. That little bit of difference in range makes a big difference to me. I don't really care what percentage is useable if I can have enough to get me to the next charger. All I know is that I brought the Leaf home from Petaluma to my house with a full charge showing 18 miles left on day one. I wouldn't even attempt to make the trip now, because I know the car wouldn't make it. (A sentiment echoed by at least one other person here on MNL). So if BMW has found a way to negate the drastic effect temperature seems to have on the Leaf battery, it could be the difference between a three-season car and year round driver. I can't tell folks I can't make it because it's only 50 degrees out and you're not "freeway close" (<-------love SoCal speak).

I understood that there would be a slight decrease in range during what passes as winter here in NorCal (I used to drive a Prius), but the combination of Freeway/Heater/Cold causing the ranges to drop to NEV territory has led me to search for alternatives.

But as you said, we won't know until we get more experiences. I'm off to 'Frisco just as soon as I can stuff enough electrons in that BMW, you bet. Think the Civic Center Chargepoints will be taken at 0500?

 

[Valdemar]

Turns out AE's strong regen can be turned off, too bad it happens automatically and when you don't expect it:

http://forum.bmwactivatethefuture.com/showthread.php?t=869" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[DaveEV]

Turns out AE's strong regen can be turned off, too bad it happens automatically and when you don't expect it:

http://forum.bmwactivatethefuture.com/showthread.php?t=869" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ouch - why didn't they slowly limit regen as SOC/temperature rises like the LEAF? Suddenly turning it on/off is crazy.

 

[Valdemar]

Turns out AE's strong regen can be turned off, too bad it happens automatically and when you don't expect it:

http://forum.bmwactivatethefuture.com/showthread.php?t=869" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ouch - why didn't they slowly limit regen as SOC/temperature rises like the LEAF? Suddenly turning it on/off is crazy.

Rough edges are to be expected on a prototype vehicle This one is dangerous though, if you get used to using strong regen instead of brakes, and frankly I don't see how else it can be, that 1/2 seconds it takes to react to such an event may be all that's needed for an accident to happen. To be fair it should rarely happen, if ever, for most people.

 

[Clippy]

Hi Kids!

Just did a 71 mile trip, mostly freeway (I'd forgotten about freeways. Gee traffic moves fast on freeways--as if people are actually trying to, you know, go somewhere) Averaged 66.2 mph returned home with 22 miles showing on the BMW out-of-juice-is-OUT-of juice meter. Consumption was 3.2 miles/kwh.

Final words?

It goes further (or is it farther) on a 100% charge. People look at you more in the BMW (not a good thing). And in response to the question "Which do you like better, the Leaf or the BMW?" my wife answered, "Are you kidding?"

Anyone want a Leaf, cheap?