Nissan won't make EV goals of 1.5m sold by 2016

[Newporttom]

I agree infrastructure is a problem. Yet every time Nissan talks about fixing it they address the wrong problem. Ohhh let's get some more chargers in SoCal.....

No. Stop. Make it your first priority to get fast chargers into every Top 100 Market. There isn't a single fast charger in Jacksonville (and a ton of other cities). You put a 24/7 fast charger on the Southern end of Jacksonville, now the car becomes viable.

 

[TimLee]

... And, easier still, a simple realization that current EVs are ideally suited to serve as a second vehicle for a household, even with zero public infrastructure. I see more Leafs every day and it's encouraging, but of course not that many in the larger scheme of things. I would bet almost all of them are second vehicles, for which most people really have no need for infrastructure other than their own EVSE. I've charged away from home less than 5 times in coming up on 3 years, only once since Blink started charging money, and that was recently at a free site in a shopping center ...

Why the insistence by you and sooooooo :!: many people to call the EV a second vehicle :?: :?: :?:
Most two or more vehicle households that have an EV drive the EV a lot more miles than the non-EV vehicle(s).
That makes the EV the PRIMARY vehicle. The non-EV vehicle(s) are the SECONDARY vehicle(s) :!:
I agree with the point that for many two or more vehicle households that the EV can be the primary vehicle without any public infrastructure.
But I think there is a psychological barrier for many people that they will not buy an EV unless there is some reasonable degree of public infrastructure.
I don't think I would have bought a 2011 LEAF if there hadn't been public infrastructure planned and being built in the area by the EV Project.
So there is a need for some amount of public infrastructure. Without it, EV adoption will be very, very low.
But Carlos Ghosn’s blaming EV sales being much lower than he had hoped for on lack of infrastructure is not correct.
kubel got the explanation correct:

I don't think it has to do with infrastructure. It has to do with the fact that people see that electric cars cost 1.5 times the cost of a gas car, have 1/5th the range, take 3 (best case scenario) to 25 times (best real world scenario) as long to 'fill up', and a huge chunk of the cars cost has a lifespan equal to about 1/10th to 1/3rd of the life of a gas engine. Gas is not expensive enough to motivate people to make the same kind of sacrifices that you and I see are no problem.

Ultimately, the current trend of producing affordable yet limited range electric vehicles is not going to catch on. Nissan made a bad business decision investing so much in the LEAF. There's a very real possibility that the LEAF will go the way of the EV1. Short of Peak Oil slapping us across the face within the next decade, I think the only real success will come from car manufacturers like Tesla that produce premium electric vehicles that have long range. The idea that we can Henry Ford the electric car isn't going to work short of a technological breakthrough. The current generation of batteries are just too damn expensive, not to mention, they suck.

Now that I'm done bashing on electric cars, let me say the LEAF is the best car I've ever owned and I have no intention of ever going back to gas.

+1000 on the LEAF being the best car I have ever owned :!: :!:
I plan to continue driving electric too :!:
Even if I have to scrap the 2011 LEAF in eight years for around $5,000 market value of it with only 60,000 miles on it because the battery capacity has become too low to work for me and the replacement battery is still cost prohibitive either for purchase or rental for my low miles per year driving on an 8 year old car.
But some how, some way, I will continue to drive electric :!:

 

[o00scorpion00o]

We have imo a pretty decent charging infrastructure but people are not willing to switch to electric until there is suitable range and/or much faster recharge times.

Despite what we think or Nissan thinks about the 60-70 mile range of the Leaf being suitable, the public don't agree.

While I could fast charge every day for 5-10 mins, the general public are not willing to do this as it adds considerable time to an already very long weekly commute. Even completely free public charging has not in the slightest bit encouraged people to buy electric.

There needs to be much more government intervention, to make ice cars much less attractive by increased taxes, but here in Europe where in the E.U and especially Ireland there are already super taxes on cars and fuel which isn't deterring people from buying ice cars.

Governments need to sort out work place charging and only allow those who need to charge use the chargers, the likes of the longer distance driver and apartment owners, the apartment charging issue needs to be sorted.

Governments are not interested in making electrics more attractive.

Car makers besides Tesla, Nissan and Renault do not want anything to do with electrics. They make huge profits on ice cars and would rather not anything to do with electrics, the reason the German car makers are starting to make electrics is because of pressure from the German Government, no other reason.

The European car industry blocked recent attempts for much stricter emissions regulations making diesel vehicles still king on our roads, speaking of Diesel, in the E.U there is less tax on diesel fuel and diesel cars in order to save the world from Co2 which now is seen as a pollutant by the general population, diesel fuel is filthy and dangerous yet it's seen in the E.U as some kind of green fuel despite causing heart disease and lung cancer it's still seen better than petrol or lpg because it has less Co2 emissions. The E.U is completely insane !!! so with that line of thinking it's far better to kill the population with heart and lung disease than to emit a little bit more Co2 !! crazy place !

Of all the 73,500 cars registered so far on the island of Ireland in 2013 there have only been 45 registered electric cars.

The small Eco Box VW Golf being the best selling model.

The leaf has suffered horrific depreciation completely wiping out any benefit in going electric in the first place. At least in the United Kingdom, The Irish resale value seems to be a good bit higher but that's because dealers here will not sell a car for it's actual worth, as no one wants the leafs that are for sale here they are worth far less than the asking price 2nd hand.

The general population couldn't care less about cars, never mind electrics and see them as an essential way to get from A-B and the ice car does the job just fine and as long as people are willing to spend the money on what they think is a superior car electrics will continue to sell very poorly.

The public are also weary about the longevity of the battery in electric cars and Nissan will not install a new battery and only repair to 70% so a car with 60 odd winter miles now has 42 mile range. While this may happen after 80k or 150K miles is unknown.

If Nissan offered money for the old pack against a new pack people would have a lot more confidence in the leaf. When battery capacity is 40-60kwh it won't be as much of a problem as there will still be sufficient range.

IMO it will take a very long time for electrics to even begin to approach ice sales, Governments and car makers need a complete change off attitude.

 

[Deleted member 8423]

Governments need to sort out work place charging and only allow those who need to charge use the chargers

You already said that there aren't enough people using the chargers. Why does THIS problem need to be solved then? Is there ample infrastructure, just not where people need it?

Governments are not interested in making electrics more attractive.

There are already tax breaks in the US at the federal level, and many states offer extra encouragement. Any sorts of discounts offered in Ireland?

The general population couldn't care less about cars, never mind electrics and see them as an essential way to get from A-B and the ice car does the job just fine and as long as people are willing to spend the money on what they think is a superior car electrics will continue to sell very poorly.

Some ICE cars are superior to the Leaf. For some users, even a car you may think is inferior may better suit them than a Leaf.

Governments and car makers need a complete change off attitude.

What do you want them to do?

 

[o00scorpion00o]

You already said that there aren't enough people using the chargers. Why does THIS problem need to be solved then? Is there ample infrastructure, just not where people need it?

Yes, that's partly the problem. For instance, there are a lot of chargers at rail station car parks which to me make no sense. Surely someone who'd be driving to the train station is driving a few miles down the road ?

There are already tax breaks in the US at the federal level, and many states offer extra encouragement. Any sorts of discounts offered in Ireland?

Yes there's a 5,000 Euro tax rebate and free evse installation.

However, ice cars are still affordable and a lot of 2nd hand buyers that do little mileage could not justify a new electric car purchase.

A lot of people could buy the Leaf and it would be suitable for most of their needs but they won't tolerate the range for the couple of times a year it may not suit their needs. Despite their being good tv advertisements and a campaign in which members of the public are given electric cars and a charger installed at their work place, it still didn't convince the public despite the positive feedback from the participants of the program.

Some ICE cars are superior to the Leaf. For some users, even a car you may think is inferior may better suit them than a Leaf.

Yes, some people will never change to ev no matter what is available. And the leaf maybe too small for some peoples needs.

Governments and car makers need a complete change off attitude.

What do you want them to do?[/quote]

For starters, the German Car makers could have come out with an e.v with more than 90-100 mile range, while faster charging may not be possible just yet, I do feel they could have offered at least 30-35 kwh.

As for the Government, the could introduce legislation to enforce charger installation in work places and make it so companies can not refuse. Then the e.v owner can be charged a rental for use of the charger which would be included on their electricity bill per month or whatever. This would at least go a long way towards the cost of the cost involved in charger installation and maintenance.he idea here is the company owners don't have to worry about electricity costs or metering, or maintenance, installation etc.

Provided the rental and electricity costs are reasonable, they shouldn't create a situation where it approaches the cost of running an ice car.

They could also work with Nissan and the electricity company to install a brand new battery when it reaches 80%% or less and the electric company buy the old battery for wind energy storage. This would also give people something less to worry about.

Quiet a lot of jobs can be created in the process and with much better controlling of renewable energy more money can be kept in the local economy through less importing of foreign energy.

We can also help rid the country of poisonous diesel exhaust.

This goes for the world too it doesn't have to be unique to Ireland.

With increasing domestic energy production in the U.S and fuel now around 3.0 USD a US Gallon (or less in places ?) I feel that the e.v movement in the U.S is in serious threat.

GM have decided not to sell the Spark EV in Europe for reasons unknown, perhaps they thought that because sales are poor with electrics that it's better not to bother until a serious interest is shown.

I would have thought a lot more people would have been interested in the Leaf, but I was wrong, despite my best efforts to try and get people to test drive it before knocking it, they are not in the slightest bit interested , why ?

 

[TimLee]

I would have thought a lot more people would have been interested in the Leaf, but I was wrong, despite my best efforts to try and get people to test drive it before knocking it, they are not in the slightest bit interested , why ?

I too have been surprised by the lack of people in Tennessee that have embraced the LEAF.
Tennessee committed $2,500,000 for rebates to the first 1000 people that participated in the eV Project and went with the LEAF or the Volt.
And Tennessean's didn't use all 1000 of them before the eV Project ran out in January 2013.
Nashville used the most, followed by Knoxville, and then Chattanooga. Chattanooga used less than 100.
But there has been a lot better interest in the LEAF in California, Washington state, and Oregon. And Georgia with their on going $5,000 subsidy is adopting LEAFs like crazy in Atlanta.
I think the biggest problem is range.
The vehicle for me has been my primary vehicle and works well for local commuting with my 34 mile round trip to downtown Chattanooga, and as I said before I love it.
But it does not do all things with its limited range.
Took a 45 mile one way (90 mile round trip) to South Pittsburg yesterday for the 100 year anniversary of the failed Hales Bar Dam.
Drove my 2009 4 cylinder Altima. Just not practical to use the LEAF for this trip.
Yes, it would have been possible. But would been very inefficient time wise with requirement to use slower speeds and spend time recharging to be able to make it back home.
Still a great car for what it is, although battery cost has got to come down and capacity degradation has got to improve or it is an extremely cost ineffective proposition.
With limited range, high battery cost, and relatively rapid capacity degradation and only a 5 year / 60,000 mile / 66.25% capacity warranty; MOST people are not going to be very enthusiastic about the LEAF, at least not for purchase. May work for some as a leased vehicle while Nissan works to get its problems corrected.
But you have to remember that many technologies that are currently widely embraced were VERY slow to be adopted. Best example is the microwave oven. Sold very slowly at the start, partly because they were expensive, but also because most people didn't know how much they wanted and needed one. Now they are inexpensive (<$60) and most everyone has one.
Other technologies of video tape, CDs, DVDs, HDTV, Blu-ray, have been adopted much quicker. And smart phone adoption has been phenomenal since Apple introduced the iPhone.
Maybe the pure EV is the next quick adoption big thing. But I'm afraid it is more in the slow adoption microwave category until battery cost / capacity is improved a lot, and capacity degradation is improved a lot, compared to what the LEAF currently offers.
The problem isn't infrastructure, the problem lies within the LEAF :!: