Nissan LEAF / NissanConnect EV severe security vulnerability

[DNAinaGoodWay]

I hit the decline button yesterday, but just got a text saying my charge is complete, so I guess the decline button isn't enough.

 

[2k1Toaster]

Tesla finds a bug and does an OTA update within hours or the next day. Nissan gets winds of a bug, sits on its a$$ for a month, then disables it once it goes public...

I agree that we will never see CarWings again. Why even bother updating it when it will all die at the end of the year anyways...

 

[Valdemar]

VIN to number is definitely stored by Nissan.
Changing sim will not be necessary until AT/T drop 2G. But as soon as that happens
Mr. judge might force Nissan fixing problem fast including changing VIN-number link.

Sure, a court decision can make anything possible, including a free brand new 3G module. A DIY solution is not very likely though, which is what I meant.

 

[JPWhite]

I'm sure there are other service providers that have 2G available for longer.
Just SIM card swap should do the trick if integrated card is AT/T locked.

Also if network is closed before warranty ends (5 years) and Nissan
shows middle finger there will be class action lawsuit. Terms might mention
that Nissan is not responsible but in reality they are. Nissan chose not to use
3G chipset even though it was available long before first Leaf rolled out.

Why? Because when you buy a vehicle you expect (and that is totally acceptable)
that equipment vehicle has is working until warranty ends. And one of those things
(in addition to radio, camera, seat heaters etc) is telematics.

I doubt that any lawsuit would be successful.

The damages as a result of the AT&T 2G sunset to a LEAF owner are likely to be minimal. We don't pay for the CarWings service, its free. Unless you can show physical or financial harm, any lawsuit will be thrown out.
The car telematics hardware works just fine it's AT&T that will sever service, not Nissan. Determining who is 'liable' might get messy.

All of this aside, I doubt there are enough folks fired up enough to get a lawsuit going in the first place.

 

[EVFuture]

Wow, this is timely. I just bought a 2015 Leaf SV on Saturday. I attempted to login to carwings on Monday, but kept getting the "No Service" message. A call to support told me to bring it in to the dealer because they would have to reset the TCU in order for it to work. I was going to drop it off tomorrow morning until I found this news. I was really looking forward to being able to use the carwings features. Bummer!

It is quite a bummer that the Carwings/ConnectEV was so poorly developed. I kind of regret getting the 2015 SV over the S at this point, as living in SoCal I have no real use for the Heat Pump heater, my phone is the main use for navigation, and Carwings is crap. I feel it's unlikely we'll get a fix anytime soon.

Can someone post the phone number to call Nissan about the Carwings outage? I doubt it will help, but maybe if a bunch of consumers call sounding angry they'll actually provide the fix instead of sitting on their butts about it.

I highly doubt we'll ever see an upgrade from 2G, but it would be really forward thinking to include a 4G LTE modem instead of a 3G at this point (which again I doubt they'll do).

 

[DoobeeDude]

Been discussed elsewhere, but keep in mind that many, or at least SOME, of us purchased our LEAF with a big warning about CARWINGS possibly going away at the end of this year.

No lawsuit likely for those customers.

 

[arnis]

Noup. Verbal warning means nothing. You have to tell exact date for how long you can use the service. And that must be written down
and seller has to have a signature under that contract. Unsigned documents are just paper.
Saying that Carwings is free is as false as saying Superchargers are free. They are not.
Price is included to vehicle price. This is one of many things that make S-trim cheaper.

 

[jpadc]

Noup. Verbal warning means nothing. You have to tell exact date for how long you can use the service. And that must be written down
and seller has to have a signature under that contract. Unsigned documents are just paper.
Saying that Carwings is free is as false as saying Superchargers are free. They are not.
Price is included to vehicle price. This is one of many things that make S-trim cheaper.

Well I have no idea what happened in your country on this, I only know what happened here. 1) Warranty on any non-powertrain related item (which would include all telematics) is 3 years on the LEAF in the US, not 5. 2) We got more than a verbal warning. We all signed a paper saying we understood that Carwings service would end when AT&T stopped 2G and that paperwork is part of the purchase agreement. 3) NIssan CAN'T give a fixed date as its not under their control. 4) Past the 3 years, Nissan has NO incentive to keep old LEAFs (or any other car working) they sell NEW ones.

I don't want to rehash old disagreements again, but I've said here many times WHEN/IF AT&T stops 2G, all pre-2016 LEAFs (in the US) are out-of luck. A class-action suit will not work here given all the warning, signatures on a notice as part of the sale, and effectively no REAL damages. People may try (they always do) but this will not get certified as a class and will not survive summary judgement (in the US).

All that said, this incident make me think for the very FIRST time Nissan MIGHT now offer an upgrade for older cars. This incident will cause them great embarrassment and the early termination of the service they cannot blame on AT&T. It does not work right now and does not because THEY screwed up. If they can fix it quickly and put up a new app in under 30 days, they might be okay. But if Nissan Connect is down several months up to the announced cut-off date (Dec. 31, 2016) customers really have been cheated and that IS Nissan's fault. THAT they will need to make up and that may cost them some 3G updates at least for cars still under a 3 year warranty.

 

[Valdemar]

1) Warranty on any non-powertrain related item (which would include all telematics) is 3 years on the LEAF in the US, not 5.

What about 2015 and 2016 cars? If an upgrade is made available to them it should be reasonable to expect it will be available for earlier ones as well.

 

[arnis]

If so then that sounds as the end of the line.
On the other hand warranty (time limit 3 years) should suspend (stop ticking) as soon as device
is broke down. So if device is in the workshop/not usable for half a year warranty extend to that time.
Same is with mileage warranty - I bought the Leaf when it had 20-50km on it. It means that warranty ends
not at 100 000km but a little bit later. My car was being fixed for 2 weeks last year.
Warranty extends 2 weeks. So 3 years and 2 weeks for example.

This doesn't cure the problem of telematics not working.


A year ago I started to open a complaint every time carwings dropped the connection (either web based or phone).
They started to pile up and every time Nissan-Services.eu just had to answer as vehicle has a warranty.
I threatened them if service is not going to work for most of the time I will return the vehicle as I don't want a vehicle that
I can not reliably preheat. Bang there came NissanConnect EV announcement few months ago. I waited and it arrived.
It now reliably works (98-99%).

So now there is a similar case in US where telematics is not usable. If it continues for too long owners should get compensation.
They have every right to get it.

 

[JPWhite]

So now there is a similar case in US where telematics is not usable. If it continues for too long owners should get compensation.
They have every right to get it.

Let's say Nissan decide to compensate their jilted customers. Here's how it will go.

Dear Jilted Customer,

Please find enclosed a coupon valid for 1 year for $500 off a new Nissan. Have a nice day.

 

[sflores91]

This is pretty funny considering that I just picked up a 2016 Leaf on Saturday! :lol: Anyone have any idea how long it will be down for? I really want to try it out.

 

[paulcone]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/nissan-leaf-car-app-offline-after-hack-exposed/

"Nissan says it is planning to launch updated versions of its app for the Nissan Leaf electric car very soon, following reports that the app could leave vehicles vulnerable to hacking."

 

[KillaWhat]

I tried to preheat my car this morning, only to get an error message that I could not sign on.

Nice of them to somehow let me know that they took the app off line?
Wasted about 15 minutes trying to figure it out.
Thank you to you guys for posting on here about it at least.
I'm going to really miss the preheat feature.
Hope they fix it soon.

 

[JPWhite]

The notifications are still active on CarWings/NissanConnect. I got notification at 6:30 this morning my charge was complete.

Apparently Its just the mobile API they have shut down.

 

[JPWhite]

I tried to preheat my car this morning, only to get an error message that I could not sign on.

Nice of them to somehow let me know that they took the app off line?
Wasted about 15 minutes trying to figure it out.
Thank you to you guys for posting on here about it at least.
I'm going to really miss the preheat feature.
Hope they fix it soon.

In the interim you can program the climate control timer to pre-heat your car at a fixed time each workday morning. I do, works like a charm and doesn't require crapwings.

 

[4CASTER]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/nissan-leaf-car-app-offline-after-hack-exposed/

"Nissan says it is planning to launch updated versions of its app for the Nissan Leaf electric car very soon, following reports that the app could leave vehicles vulnerable to hacking."

Nice! Maybe they can actually improve the app speed while they're at it. Taking 15 seconds for each operation feels like an eternity. Of course, it will probably take even longer and they'll claim 'security reasons'.

 

[knightmb]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/nissan-leaf-car-app-offline-after-hack-exposed/

"Nissan says it is planning to launch updated versions of its app for the Nissan Leaf electric car very soon, following reports that the app could leave vehicles vulnerable to hacking."

Nice! Maybe they can actually improve the app speed while they're at it. Taking 15 seconds for each operation feels like an eternity. Of course, it will probably take even longer and they'll claim 'security reasons'.

It's all server load based. During peak times, it is that slow. Try it at 3am and it appears to work a lot quicker.

 

[kovalb]

FYI, the NissanConnect EV website appears to be working.
Just use your web browser to go to https://owners.nissanusa.com
Remote access is still possible.

 

[finman100]

hmmm, so it is. Thanks kovalb! Better than nothing...