New member 2012 Leaf "can't start pull out charger"

[Brujan]

Hello,
My car is stuck half way into my garage and won't start! It has pulled this stunt twice before. The first time I had been driving around on errands on the fourth stop of the day in a parking lot miles away from my charger I get "can't start pull out charger" I am familiar with this warning when I forget to remove the charger plug at home. Knowing there was no charger plugged in I didn't jump out to see. I kept trying to start the car repeatedly. After about 20 times of turning off the car and turning the car back on the car finally started. I drove home and the problem was gone. The car would start ok when back in my garage. The car was ok for about a month then it did it again. This time it was in my garage at home. I had just un-plugged it to leave and got this message to pull out charger. I plugged the charger back in so I could re-remove the plug. Doing this a few times did not work. I was able to get the car to stop this like the first time by just repeatedly trying and trying.
Now this is the third time and the car is stuck halfway through my garage door. Yesterday with 27 miles left on the charge meter I parked the car into my garage door and plugged it in. Later when I went to leave, the car does this again "CANT START PULL OUT CHARGER"
I am not able to get the car to go this time by repeatedly re-tryin. I have made another observation this time, while the car was plugged in it didn't gain any charge, it still is showing 27 miles on the meter. I also don't see any blue lights on the dash while plugged in. When plugging in the charger I don't hear the normal clunking sounds from the back of the car. I do hear the normal beep sound you get when plugging in.

I am hoping that someone with technical knowledge of how the charging system works can shed some light on what is happening here?
I would also like to know how the system decides the the charger is attached to the car? Is the physical presence of the plug into the receptacle moving a switch or is the system using the voltage presence as the indication.
Has anyone had this happen and what did you do?

Thanks for reading this, Bruce

 

[LeftieBiker]

Welcome. You are almost certainly seeing the side effects of a weak 12 volt accessory battery. If you can get to it with the car in that position, charge the 12 volt battery with an external 12 volt charger. If that solves the issue, then you should consider replacing the accessory battery with a new, 51R configuration battery - preferably an AGM battery. If this doesn't solve the problem, then you may have a foreign object stuck in, or damage to, the charging port.

 

[SageBrush]

^^ Good advice,

I suggest flipping it around though: first look for charge port damage or a foreign object. If neither is found then presume it is the 12v battery.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Or do it in the easiest order: if you have a 12 volt battery charger, try that first. If not, check the port first.

 

[Brujan]

Thanks All for the nice replies,
I will go out today and hope to solve the problem with your help now. The battery being the culprit seems most likely, I did not know that would cause this type of issue but I can believe it is. I guess the battery is the electrical source to operate system relays or contactors. I say this because I have already, yesterday spent much time looking and poking around in the receptacle without any joy. So first i will change the battery.
I have no experience with how things function on this car but I have spent 50 years analysing air conditioning equipment that is misbehaving as I am a retired mechanical engineer. So quickly I started to think the car thinks the plug is in the receptacle. Because the plug is not in the receptacle therefore the component that dose the functions of telling of the presidents of the plug is defective or malfunctioning somehow. By looking into the receptical I see nothing out of the ordinary. I spent time with a plastic pick trying to see if anything was movable and can't see what causes the car to respond to the insertion of the charging plug? I would really like to know how that part of the car functions so I can examine it. My gut says though this is not the issue because twice I have gotten the car started by repeated tries of starting. This would lean more towards a relay contact not making and it is being exorcised by working it. I am so hoping it's the battery that would be nice.
I will post back what happens.
Thanks again for your help, Bruce

 

[LeftieBiker]

You don't have to replace the 12 volt battery to see if that's the problem. Just charge it fully with an external charger. If you do replace it, keep in mind these things:

* 51R is the size, and the R matters.

* AGM is a better formulation for the Leaf than a simple flooded cell starting battery.

* Fully charge the new battery either before installing it, or right after installation and BEFORE trying to start the car. Unlike ICE cars with alternators, the Leaf can fail to fully charge the 12 volt battery - especially if it is low on charge when installed.

You should be getting a Bluetooth dongle like the one in my signature, and the LeafSpy Pro app. LeafSpy Pro can both retrieve error codes and, if necessary, clear them.

 

[nlspace]

You likely had a fault and now a possible failure within the On Board Charger (OBC), although a weak 12V battery is the easiest and first culprit to rule out.

There is an AC Detection circuit on the power board in the OBC that sends this signal to the microcontroller on the upper control board. From there the OBC communicates with the EV-ECU over the CAN buss. So a false signal in the AC Detect could trigger the "can't start" condition that you experienced, and a weak 12V could be a contributor.

The lack of charging may be related to the "can't start", or may be a new issue with a component failure in the OBC.

 

[SageBrush]

* 51R is the size, and the R matters.
* AGM is a better formulation for the Leaf than a simple flooded cell starting battery.

This is correct, but the discerning shopper also looks for a deep discharge battery, NOT a starting battery. Starting batteries have high CCA and low RC (reserve capacity.) The best fit 12v for the LEAF are in the 350 CCA range and around 70+ minutes RC. Be sure to get a battery with the correct posts for the car cable terminals.

Here is a good review and summary: https://www.batteryequivalents.com/group-51-and-51r-batteries-dimensions-features-and-recommendations.html

 

[SageBrush]

You likely had a fault and now a possible failure within the On Board Charger (OBC), although a weak 12V battery is the easiest and first culprit to rule out.

I'm not convinced that OBC failure is likely, but the car may have set an error code that has to be cleared. LeafSpy and an OBD2 adapter are important diagnostic and correction tools for the DIY'r

 

[Brujan]

I am learning that this forum is taking hours to post my replies so this makes it difficult to keep in pace with a good technical conversation.
Thanks Nicespace for the explanation of the charger connection principal of presence.
Not knowing at this point if my last post is up yet I will repeat that charging the 12 volt battery got it going and it's inside my garage on the car charger now.
So I need to figure out if the battery is bad or if the car is not charging it. I put a load on the battery for a while and it held up over 12 volts with head lights on for 30 minutes. This makes me question if the car is charging the battery? After I have the EV battery charged back up I intend to get into if the car is charging the 12volt battery. What you can tell me that would be helpful is when dose the 12 volt battery get charged by the car? I am guessing when the car is on OBC charger it runs off the EV battery? Will it charge with the EV system off?

 

[LeftieBiker]

Sorry about the delays, but the forum software requires that new members have their first few posts approved, and I happen to sleep days. I'm surprised that another Mod hasn't been doing it, but I may be working alone at the moment. I'll check more often.

There is one behavior that will easily kill the 12 volt battery: leaving the car plugged in for many hours, or for days, after charging ends. Lots of short trips with no wiper use can also lower the accessory battery charge. How old is the 12 volt battery? If more than 2-3 years, I suggest that you replace it with an AGM type lead-acid battery. The Leaf battery type is 51R - and the R matters. The car doesn't charge the 12 volt battery much while it is charging. The system provides 13 volts to keep it from running down while charging, but charging at a high enough amperage to make a big difference is brief. Most charging occurs while the car is in Ready Mode (yellow-green car icon lit on dashboard), which begins when you start the car with foot on brake. Try charging the 12 volt battery once a week externally. If this "solves" the problem, I suggest a hardwired SAE connector pigtail so you can charge the 12 volt battery with the car. Some of us run the pigtail into the charge port compartment, to make that easy. This is one of the biggest PITAs with driving an older Leaf.

 

[SageBrush]

I am learning that this forum is taking hours to post my replies so this makes it difficult to keep in pace with a good technical conversation.
Thanks Nicespace for the explanation of the charger connection principal of presence.
Not knowing at this point if my last post is up yet I will repeat that charging the 12 volt battery got it going and it's inside my garage on the car charger now.
So I need to figure out if the battery is bad or if the car is not charging it. I put a load on the battery for a while and it held up over 12 volts with head lights on for 30 minutes. This makes me question if the car is charging the battery? After I have the EV battery charged back up I intend to get into if the car is charging the 12volt battery. What you can tell me that would be helpful is when dose the 12 volt battery get charged by the car? I am guessing when the car is on OBC charger it runs off the EV battery? Will it charge with the EV system off?

A bit of black magic is involved. The bottom line is that the DC/DC converter has to be active. That happens when the car is charging (but not when the EVSE is plugged in and charging has completed.) If memory serves, it also happens when the car is in the READY state (obtained by pressing the the start button twice from off without pressing the brake. And lastly, when the car is driven

Congrats on moving the car. I'm sure it was a relief

By the way, 12v battery voltage is not a great way to estimate capacity. If in doubt, get a new 12V. If I was uncertain whether the 12v is being charged by the car I would buy a CT. A cheap one will be fine. You can also use LeafSpy for this: when the DC/DC is active, Leafspy reports 14.1v for the 12v

 

[Brujan]

Well Thanks for all the good advice and yes it was causing me stress to have the car stalled right in the doorway. Cold weather and snow is forecast in a couple more days too!
I am driving the car to town and back to our farm thats 15 miles 3 times now. I am hopeful that the battery was the only problem. I am being cautious till I know all else is ok.
My observation when charging the other day was it took a few hours to bring the battery up to charge meaning the battery was drained and not just low capacity. I have put loads on the battery and it can hold a voltage for quite a while these things tell me the battery is most likely a good one unless it has a cell intermittently shorting and I dought that. I am looking More for how the battery became discharged rather than it's bad lets throw a new one in. It is certain the battery was low when I couldn't get the car to go.
As I am looking into what happens after I deplete the EV battery and put the car onto the charger I am seeing that the 12volt battery is not requiring much if any charge. Tends to be at 13.1 after parking car but it tops off at 15.1 volts in about 3 minutes. The 15 volts is concerning to me. I know my meter is accurate. I would think there would be a 14.3 volt regulation tops.
I want to thank all who have contributed knowledge abut this car it has been very appreciated. I surly will return with more questions. Thanks,
Bruce B

 

[SageBrush]

Tends to be at 13.1 after parking car but it tops off at 15.1 volts in about 3 minutes. The 15 volts is concerning to me. I know my meter is accurate. I would think there would be a 14.3 volt regulation tops.

15.1v sounds high to me too, but there is phenomenon called surface charge that makes immediate measurements after charging inaccurate. Turn on the headlights for a couple minutes when the car is off and then measure.

 

[knightmb]

The 15 volts is concerning to me. I know my meter is accurate. I would think there would be a 14.3 volt regulation tops.
I want to thank all who have contributed knowledge abut this car it has been very appreciated. I surly will return with more questions. Thanks,
Bruce B

Yeah, I've only ever seen the Leaf 12 volt system top out at 14.4 volts, but I think it's possible to hit 15V in an open circuit if you remove the battery out of the loop, not sure why you are getting those readings...

 

[LeftieBiker]

Coincidentally, I saw 14.6 volts for the first time, this morning. (I have a little phone charger/battery voltage monitor/thermometer plugged into the "lighter" socket, to monitor these things.) I think it's mainly a case of few people watching the system voltage while it charges a really low 12 volt battery.