NEMA 5-20p 16amp 120v L1 charger?

[P71VIC]

One charging scenario I would like to see available is a portable L1 EVSE that could support L1 12amp and L1 16amp 120volt outlets.

Why doesn't this seem to exist? It would likely charge nearly 50% faster than 12amp L1 due to the 300 watt static cooling pump load at charge time. 5-20r plugs are fairly common in homes less than 20 years old.

This would be very useful in scenarios where one may top up while visiting a private home.

 

[planet4ever]

Since EV charging is a continuous load, you really are supposed to have a dedicated circuit running no more than 80% of the circuit specification. Yes, 16A is 80% of a 20A circuit, but typical home wiring circuits are rarely dedicated except for specific applications (refrigerator, microwave, garbage disposal, etc.). A 12A EV draw is at the same 80% limit of a 15A circuit, but modern homes use 15A circuits mostly for lighting. The key reason for using only a 12A EVSE on what is likely to be a 20A wall circuit is that it does provide a tolerance for other things on that circuit. If you are going to have a dedicated circuit for EV charging, the same wire for a 20A 120v circuit is of course just as good for 20A 240v, and now you are talking about a real gain in charging speed.

Besides, I had to laugh when you misspoke and referred to "5-20r plugs". 5-20R outlets are indeed very common, but when was the last time you saw a 5-20P plug? I think most people would have no idea what to do with it!

Ray

 

[fooljoe]

Makes perfect sense for me, and as you can see here Tesla does support charging at 16 amps from a 20 amp 120v circuit (or at least did with the Roadster.) Even if it's a relatively small gain, it's something, and I don't see why more EVSEs / onboard chargers don't allow for this. On that note, you might also expect to be able to charge at 24 amps on a 30 amp 120v circuit like those commonly found at RV parks.

One thing I've often wondered about the Leaf is - supposing you could find / build an EVSE that advertised 16+ amps on 120v - would the onboard charger accept it, or just go at 12 amps anyway?

 

[P71VIC]

Besides, I had to laugh when you misspoke and referred to "5-20r plugs". 5-20R outlets are indeed very common, but when was the last time you saw a 5-20P plug? I think most people would have no idea what to do with it!

Ray

You are right I did mis-speak. However I have seen these used with window a/c units and a particular rug cleaning machine that has a heating element.

If the wiring cannot support a continuous 16amp load those outlets should not be used!

 

[Deleted member 3147]

One thing I've often wondered about the Leaf is - supposing you could find / build an EVSE that advertised 16+ amps on 120v - would the onboard charger accept it, or just go at 12 amps anyway?

I believe that the on-board charger limits 120V charging to 12A, regardless of the pilot signal. AFAIK, Phil's upgrade to the L1 EVSE outputs a 16A pilot signal, regardless of voltage.

 

[fooljoe]

AFAIK, Phil's upgrade to the L1 EVSE outputs a 16A pilot signal, regardless of voltage.

Actually, at least with the 2013 upgrade I know it's a separate pilot signal, and it's user-programmable for each of 120/240v. But I think you can only go up to 12 amps on 120v. I think you're right about the Leaf charger though, but as I mentioned there's no real reason to have that limitation that I'm aware of, aside from idiot-proofing.

 

[P71VIC]

Is this what I am looking for? http://stores.intuitwebsites.com/ClipperCreekInc/-strse-19/ACS-dsh-20-Level-1-Permanent/Detail.bok

 

[Ingineer]

If you have the correct adapter and outlet, We can program any EVSE that's been upgraded since about the middle of March to charge faster on 120V, and if you have one already we can do it for free without you needing to send the unit in. By default we set the maximum to 12A, as it could be dangerous for an unqualified person to increase 120V amperage beyond this. If you own one and want higher amperage, simply give us a call.

Soon, we will be stocking NEMA 5-20 adapters for use on the EVSE, and anyone ordering one of those will get 16A default programming.

The 2013 LEAF w/ 6kW charger will charge at up to about 27A on 120V if the EVSE permits.

-Phil

 

[fooljoe]

The 2013 LEAF w/ 6kW charger will charge at up to about 27A on 120V if the EVSE permits.

Cool - any idea if the 2011-2012 models can do more than 12a?

 

[planet4ever]

Is this what I am looking for? http://stores.intuitwebsites.com/ClipperCreekInc/-strse-19/ACS-dsh-20-Level-1-Permanent/Detail.bok

To answer more directly, no. That is just another 120v EVSE like the one that comes with the car. The Clipper Creek LCS-25, however, is quite another kettle of fish. It supports 240v and is just as fast as Phil's, but not as flexible, because his can handle both 120v and 240v and can be dialed down for lower amps where necessary.

Ray

 

[surfingslovak]

The Clipper Creek LCS-25, however, is quite another kettle of fish. It supports 240v and is just as fast as Phil's, but not as flexible, because his can handle both 120v and 240v and can be dialed down for lower amps where necessary.

Yes, this is a disappointing aspect of the LCS-25. Phil's solution is more competitive, and I mentioned that to the ClipperCreek support team as well.

 

[Ingineer]

The 2013 LEAF w/ 6kW charger will charge at up to about 27A on 120V if the EVSE permits.

Cool - any idea if the 2011-2012 models can do more than 12a?

Unfortunately the 2011-2012 LEAF OBC (On-Board charger) stops at 12A on 120v regardless of the EVSE. Though we can upgrade the EVSE to support higher amperages when used on other EV's. For 2011-2012 LEAFs, it won't matter though as you are already charging at maximum on 120v or 240v with a Rev2 upgrade. That's a limitation of the OBC.

However, We will be offering an upgrade program for Rev1/Rev2 owners at some point when we get caught up. This will give Rev1/Rev2 owners programmable amperage features.

-Phil

 

[Volusiano]

However, We will be offering an upgrade program for Rev1/Rev2 owners at some point when we get caught up. This will give Rev1/Rev2 owners programmable amperage features.

-Phil

I remember way back when Rev2 was considered, there was a big survey from you to see whether users wanted a programmable amperage selection or not and in the end the decision was to go with the fixed Rev2 at 16A option. What has changed this time around that enables the programmable option to become a non-brainer choice?

I assume that for owners of the old 2011/2012 Panasonic EVSE, even if programmable, the limit is still going to be 16A, right?

For Rev1 owners, I assume they will benefit from 2 things with this new upgrade: programmable current AND being able to go up to 16A now instead of being limited at just 12A.

For Rev2 owners, I assume the only benefit is the programmable current because theirs is already at 16A.

 

[Ingineer]

I remember way back when Rev2 was considered, there was a big survey from you to see whether users wanted a programmable amperage selection or not and in the end the decision was to go with the fixed Rev2 at 16A option. What has changed this time around that enables the programmable option to become a non-brainer choice?

I assume that for owners of the old 2011/2012 Panasonic EVSE, even if programmable, the limit is still going to be 16A, right?

For Rev1 owners, I assume they will benefit from 2 things with this new upgrade: programmable current AND being able to go up to 16A now instead of being limited at just 12A.

For Rev2 owners, I assume the only benefit is the programmable current because theirs is already at 16A.

I was forced to develop the advanced software for the 2nd generation EVSE due to the 2013 LEAF not limiting 120V to 12A, so I am backporting it to the 1st generation EVSE. (2011-2012). Because of this, a 1st gen EVSE owner will benefit if there is a need for the advanced features. We can set the unit up to 20A if needed, while this won't benefit a 2011-2012 LEAF, it may if they have other EV's, or are a multi-LEAF family.

The update will not be free as it does take significant labor to process them, but we will offer it to those that want it.

-Phil

 

[Deleted member 3147]

Actually, this would have some benefit for a '11/'12 when charging on 208V, right? We would be able to get the full 3.3KW by pulling 18.5A.

Also, does this mean that a 2013 Leaf owner should not use a 2011/12 upgraded EVSE on 120 volts?

 

[Ingineer]

Yes, if you had a scenario where you were regularly using 208v, such as at work, you'd gain a slight improvement. In the scheme of things it so small it's almost not worth the hassle.

Yes, if you let a 2103 6kW LEAF use your Rev2 EVSE upgrade on 120v, it will attempt to draw 16A from 120v. In most cases, this isn't a problem, but a slight possibility exists.

-Phil