My first DC Quick Charge

[TonyWilliams]

The UK Leaf group has a good chat going on this subject:

Here's the UK results as of now as to how many would toss in some bucks for a DC charging network:

Yes - 19 - 70.37%

Maybe - 5 - 18.52%

No - 3- 11.11%

We in San Diego are certainly looking at all the possibilities. But, with your 100 of the_most_interested and motivated LEAF owners, you might get 10% or 20%, or even 30% who will actually lay down cash. 30 people times $100 gets you nowhere.

If you can get 30 people each with $1000 and you have a start to one DC charger. But, even that motivated group won't throw that kind of money in. Maybe 3 to 5 will throw in $1000. And you're back to square one.

Here in San Diego, I believe we have more LEAFs than any other area in the country. Yet we still need about $2000 per person to make it work. Anything significantly less with the current 700 LEAFs doesn't get us to the first square (at the expected 1% to 2% investment rate).

My current thoughts are that we need to get one up and running somewhere, with money and favors, begged, borrowed, but never stolen ;-)

 

[Phoenix]

The UK Leaf group has a good chat going on this subject:

My current thoughts are that we need to get one up and running somewhere, with money and favors, begged, borrowed, but never stolen ;-)

I heartily agree! That's why WE ALL need to put together all the pieces so that CHAdeMO, Vacaville and PG&E results in an operating DC QC for the public. Let's say we get 10 persons ready, willing and able to put up $2,000 (or 20 persons at $1k) to purchase a CHAdeMO for Vacaville. That is doable. At this point, let's say we have them pledge privately by PM to see whether we can get $20k at least in pledges. It can be in whatever amount that is affordable to the pledgor. If no one else volunteers, I am willing to be the contact person or clearinghouse for pledges. Just PM me with your pledges and I will post a running tally since the amounts pledged may vary.

To answer my own earlier question, I assume Vacaville can't or won't accept a "free" EV Project DC QC because the service & management contract is too onerous. So query whether Vacaville is willing to handle the management. cost and operation of the DC QC on their own if a CHAdeMO is donated to them? Based upon this original post, we assume NOT having a DC QC is what is holding up this process for Vacavile. Can we assume Vacaville can handle the management, servicing and cost of electricity for operating this QC and charge users a reasonable fee to park there in half-hour increments?

Finally, we need someone to vet the CHAdeMO units, prices and subsidies. This information is going to be applicable to all of California as we try to replicate this process with further QCs down the road. So need volunteers with expertise on this task.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Finally, we need someone to vet the CHAdeMO units, prices and subsidies. This information is going to be applicable to all of California as we try to replicate this process with further QCs down the road. So need volunteers with expertise on this task.

I spent 30 minutes on the phone with Aeroviroment today, tallying data and info.

 

[Herm]

We in San Diego are certainly looking at all the possibilities. But, with your 100 of the_most_interested and motivated LEAF owners, you might get 10% or 20%, or even 30% who will actually lay down cash. 30 people times $100 gets you nowhere.

If you can get 30 people each with $1000 and you have a start to one DC charger. But, even that motivated group won't throw that kind of money in. Maybe 3 to 5 will throw in $1000. And you're back to square one.

I agree its hard, but perhaps doable if you try hard enough.. first get hold of a $15k low cost Nissan charger, magically ready for the USA.. get some free land somewhere convenient and get it installed.. probably at a mall near a good substation. Sell shares among your group of 100 Leafers for $250 each and you should have enough for one station. Charge $10 per quick charge and soon you will be making enough profits to interest more investors.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I agree its hard, but perhaps doable if you try hard enough.. first get hold of a $15k low cost Nissan charger, magically ready for the USA.. get some free land somewhere convenient and get it installed.. probably at a mall near a good substation. Sell shares among your group of 100 Leafers for $250 each and you should have enough for one station. Charge $10 per quick charge and soon you will be making enough profits to interest more investors.

Honestly, I spend quite a bit of time everyday on this singular pursuit.

The Nissan charger is not UL listed, and may be problematic to limit to 20kW.

Any charger that can not be limited to 20kW is a non-starter.

Free land... California.... sure!

I think that the serious upfront money will only be achieved with a loan/benefactor, and... then, we may get some investors.

 

[Phoenix]

I agree its hard, but perhaps doable if you try hard enough.. first
Free land... California.... sure!

.

Well, if not free land, some willing landowners with commercial property that they already own, who are lurking on these sites. But seriously, the "good" thing about this not quite recession is cheaper property prices.

 

[Spies]

I am sure this has been mentioned before but is there a reason the Vacaville CHAdeMO location can not be used for one of the EV Project ECOtality CHAdeMO locations? Seems like a no brainer to me.

 

[Phoenix]

I am sure this has been mentioned before but is there a reason the Vacaville CHAdeMO location can not be used for one of the EV Project ECOtality CHAdeMO locations? Seems like a no brainer to me.

My guess is that the service maintenance contract that goes along with the "free" EVProject CHAdeMO is not acceptable to potential host sites.

As for the availability of DC Quick Chargers, Schneider says they don't have a QC. SuperRapidas (JFE Engineering) is only a test model and NOT compatible with LEAF (per telephone call by Japanese speaker). Nissan and Mitsu's QCs are NOT UL-certified. That leaves us with only E-TEC/Ecotality's UL-certified CHAdeMOs. No wonder there has been no roll out of QCs for public use. Still waiting on AV, 350green, and the swiss company. Correct/Update if this info not accurate.

 

[Spies]

My guess is that the service maintenance contract that goes along with the "free" EVProject CHAdeMO is not acceptable to potential host sites.

Anyone have access to a copy of said service maintenance contract? Sounds like it would be an interesting read.

 

[Phoenix]

Probably considered proprietary? But check out the thread under Regional titled something like Ecotaility Update as of 4/26/2011 (sorry, don't know how to provide links) which discusses some of the problems.

 

[rawhog]

The reason Vacaville is not getting anything from the EV project is that Vacville is not located within the geographical confines of the EV project. According to Jason Smith with EcoTality. Same reason I could not qualify.

 

[Spies]

The reason Vacaville is not getting anything from the EV project is that Vacville is not located within the geographical confines of the EV project. According to Jason Smith with EcoTality. Same reason I could not qualify.

Bummer How about the Bay Area Air Quality Management District? Is Vacaville in the district? Perhaps they could help.

http://www.baaqmd.gov/Divisions/Strategic-Incentives/Bay-Area-EV-Ready/EV-Charge.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The BAAQMD will also be working to provide funding for the establishment of a network of up to 50 Direct Charge (DC) fast chargers.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Still waiting on AV, 350green, and the swiss company. Correct/Update if this info not accurate.

AV is UL listed.

Thread with my call to to Aerovironment

 

[edatoakrun]

The reason Vacaville is not getting anything from the EV project is that Vacville is not located within the geographical confines of the EV project. According to Jason Smith with EcoTality. Same reason I could not qualify.

Bummer How about the Bay Area Air Quality Management District? Is Vacaville in the district? Perhaps they could help.

http://www.baaqmd.gov/Divisions/Strategic-Incentives/Bay-Area-EV-Ready/EV-Charge.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The BAAQMD will also be working to provide funding for the establishment of a network of up to 50 Direct Charge (DC) fast chargers.

And this illustrates the fundamental misunderstanding about DC charging station infrastructure, and the error the State of California has made in emphasizing initial DC charge locations in population centers.

Not much need for DC in population centers, since most every BEV driver leaves home with a convenient, cheap and low pollution off-peak, full charge.

Vital on highway locations, for the occasional use by drivers traveling between AC charge locations.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Correct/Update if this info not accurate.

Also, Hasetec (Japan) is not UL listed, but that is the unit that was at the Santa Monica Plug-in-Day with a diesel generator (on a flatbed trailer).

 

[TNleaf]

As for the availability of DC Quick Chargers, Schneider says they don't have a QC.

Scheider Electric does not have a QC, YET. They have been working on one (will be UL approved) that should be available Q1 2012. I will post more info when it becomes available.

 

[TonyWilliams]

As for the availability of DC Quick Chargers, Schneider says they don't have a QC.

Scheider Electric does not have a QC, YET. They have been working on one (will be UL approved) that should be available Q1 2012. I will post more info when it becomes available.

Price? I tried to email them, but with different browers, etc, it just kept failing. Of course, no email or phone contact. It's already starting to look like a pain in the rear to deal with these guys. I suspect that there price will be in line with what their "peers" at AV are charger.... $50k.

 

[TNleaf]

As for the availability of DC Quick Chargers, Schneider says they don't have a QC.

Scheider Electric does not have a QC, YET. They have been working on one (will be UL approved) that should be available Q1 2012. I will post more info when it becomes available.

Price? I tried to email them, but with different browers, etc, it just kept failing. Of course, no email or phone contact. It's already starting to look like a pain in the rear to deal with these guys. I suspect that there price will be in line with what their "peers" at AV are charger.... $50k.

I haven't heard a price either, but I did a quick google search and found two very nice documents on their website.

One note is that it looks like these documents are for the EU product (deep in the document, you can select a country, US not being one of them), that would also explain why this document doesn't reference the UL listing number. My educated guess is that it's available for market in EU and is awaiting UL listing before release to the US market.

EVLink QC Installation Manual (PDF)
EVLink QC Site Configuration Manual (PDF)

If I can find anymore information that's available to the public, I'll let you know.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

And this illustrates the fundamental misunderstanding about DC charging station infrastructure, and the error the State of California has made in emphasizing initial DC charge locations in population centers.

Not much need for DC in population centers, since most every BEV driver leaves home with a convenient, cheap and low pollution off-peak, full charge.

Vital on highway locations, for the occasional use by drivers traveling between AC charge locations.

I really hope the people who are making these decisions have done some long term studies... my conclusion, being in the suburbs, is that there need to be DC QC's in and around and in between population centers. Most of the driving happens in and around major population centers and that is where a convenient quick charge is going to be very helpful, especially in cold whether. For those coming in from the "berbs", being able to drive around and do errands and then charge up for the return home is great. I'm beginning to think emphasizing L2 is the real mistake. My first couple of quick charges have opened my eyes quite a bit. Quick charging is impressive and will dazzle prospective owners, it's what we need at least some of, pretty much every 40 miles or so along corridors and all around population centers, like the 50 that are being planned here in the Seattle metro, and the 9+ along I-5 from border to border... I think DC QCing is going to prove to be the charge method of choice out in the wild in the near future. L-2 will be fine for opportunity charging, but fundamentally not convenient and hard to rely on until it's practically at every business, which I'm skeptical will ever happen.

 

[amtoro]

Agree.

L2 is ok, but it means having to leave the car at a location and take the bicycle or walk to your local destinations giving the car enough time to gain a useful amount of charge before returning; L2's will not be everywhere because there are just not enough EV's to make use of them.

L3's are more practical as a 15-minute charge can give you around 35 to 40 miles of range.