Manhattan is about to have as many charging stations as gas

[Nekota]

ConEd Could Be Raising Rates Even Higher As The Size Of The City's Electric Vehicle Fleet Explodes

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/coned-could-be-raising-rates-even-higher-as-citys-electric-vehicle-fleet-grows-2011-12#ixzz1fjxIk0Sm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

At least NYC 'gets it'.

 

[charlestonleafer]

I wish every city would get it.

 

[Herm]

This may turn into a trend, a way to pass blame on rate increases..

 

[TNleaf]

Excuse me for being critical/skeptical but I feel a bit like I'm reading marketing/media crud.

1 gas station is how many pumps?
1 "charging station" is likely 1 EVSE

To say "we have 40 charging stations" to me reads "there are 40 EVSEs scattered across Manhattan".
That is, unless they have legit "charging stations" with multiple EVSEs.

Otherwise I'd say the comparison is more for the shock factor. 46 gas stations is likely over 200 gas pumps.

 

[lpickup]

I was glad to read the caveat about peak/off-peak in the rate discussion, because if anything, charging off-peak HELPS utilities, not hurts them and should allow them to make better use of their capital investments during off-peak times. There should be no rate increase at all for off-peak charging. As for on-peak charging, okay, that would be fair, although I would prefer to see a "smart grid" type of solution where the rate is applied specifically to EV charging and not electricity use in general.

Wow, Manhattan only has 48 gas filling stations? I suppose real estate is at a premium and you're not going to have a gas station sitting in amongst skyscrapers, but still! I'm surprised more people that drive gas cars in Manhattan don't have range anxiety when they are stuck in traffic with their engine burning fuel knowing they have to get off-island to fill up! At least with electric you can stick a charging station practically anywhere!

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

TN, did you read past the proverbial first paragraph? it stated EXACTLY what you said. you assumed it meant pumps, but it did not.

Ipick; dont be thrown by the # of residents vertically stacked up. the area of Manhattan is pretty small. i am guessing that if you take random chunks of the car crazy LA area of equal size, you might find a similar # of gas stations.

Herm; would you rather continue to subsidize the MUCH higher and INVOLUNTARY hidden cost of foreign oil?? realize if you never burn another drop of oil in your life, YOU ARE STILL PAYING FOR IT


overall, i am more than a bit surprised at the response to something i consider wonderful

 

[lpickup]

Ipick; dont be thrown by the # of residents vertically stacked up. the area of Manhattan is pretty small. i am guessing that if you take random chunks of the car crazy LA area of equal size, you might find a similar # of gas stations.

Actually I wasn't even considering residents per se (most of whom I suspect use public transportation rather than drive), but rather the number of cars I see on the streets there. A large portion of those are cabs of course, and they probably have company filling stations. But commuters from NJ, Long Island and Westchester county must make up a good portion of private vehicles in the city. I suspect that with so few gas stations (and likely expensive at that!) they must have to plan their commutes much along the same lines that EV owners have to: i.e. make sure you leave home full!

 

[TNleaf]

TN, did you read past the proverbial first paragraph? it stated EXACTLY what you said. you assumed it meant pumps, but it did not.

Did you read more than the first sentence of my post? If so, you would not have come to the conclusion that I "assumed it meant pumps, but it did not."

 

[smkettner]

As long as you are getting nit-picky.... there is usually only one pump per product tank and it will feed multiple dispensing nozzles
Kinda like calling the EVSE a charger. But we all know what you mean

 

[Yodrak]

"In order to power the largest electric vehicle (EV) fleet in the nation Manhattan is about to have as many charging stations as gas stations.

The city is home to 48 old-school filling stations while the number of charging stations is currently at 40 and growing by the month."

Few residents of Manhattan own cars - NYC, the borough of Manhattan in particular, has one of the most extensive public transportation systems in the world and by far the most extensive in the USA. Most commuters go in by bus or rail, or drive to north Jersey or one of the outer boroughs and take rail or the subway to their destination in Manhattan. There's little need for public gas stations in Manhattan, so it's no surprise that there are so few, and because there are so few it's no big deal that there are as many charging stations as there are gas stations.

 

[TNleaf]

As long as you are getting nit-picky.... there is usually only one pump per product tank and it will feed multiple dispensing nozzles
Kinda like calling the EVSE a charger. But we all know what you mean

:lol:

That's a very true point about EVSEs being called chargers (which I try to avoid... unless it's a L3 unit). I've also heard people (and media) call 1 EVSE (like a Blink pedestal) a charging station. Comparing "gas stations" to "charging stations" is apple to oranges, IMHO.

There's little need for public gas stations in Manhattan, so it's no surprise that there are so few, and because there are so few it's no big deal that there are as many charging stations as there are gas stations.

Exactly.

 

[DaveEV]

Con Edison is watching these numbers closely and has set up a section of their website outlining specific charging plans that won't disrupt energy flow to the city. Plugging in during off peak hours after 10:00 p.m. and before 10:00 a.m. will be key.
To that end the utility company could raise its already high rates to keep drivers from plugging in any time but off peak.

Sounds like they might only raise peak TOU rates to encourage more off-peak charging. IMO they should do both - raise peak rates and lower off-peak rates...

I know there's a number of buildings in NYC that shift loads off-peak for air conditioning by freezing ice at night and then using that ice to cool the building during the day... No easy way to avoid peak loads for EV charging unless you have a big battery, though, which isn't cheap.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

i would think that the primary gas user would be taxi cabs and guessing that large companies probably own their own pumps to save money.

as far as stations verses pump? no mention of future expansion of gas stations, but definitely implies that a lot more chargers are coming.

what they dont say is how many of the 40 chargers they have now are public. guessing not very many yet

 

[Yodrak]

Seems to me that the article mixes talk about public and private, going back and forth as if they were the same, which they are not. For example, "the City of New York partnered with Consolidated Edison, has invested $130 million in 26,500 hybrid and EVs across all city agencies ..." and "Over 4,000 Smith Electric hybrid commercial trucks are already streaming across Manhattan ..." Fleet operations.

My bet is that the 40 chargers are public, because the city is not going to keep its 26,500 vehicles charged with 40 chargers. It probably charges it's vehicles at its own garages, just as it fuels its ICE vehicles. (And as other posters have noted, the taxi and bus fleets are also fueled at their own garages.) Those 4,000 commercial trucks also won't get far with 40 chargers - they also have to be charged at company facilities. Although, the commercial vehicles especially may need to re-charged sometime during the day while running their routes.

So my question is - how many EVs (or HEVs) are there in Manhattan owned by people? That's what the 40 chargers would probably be intended for. And given Manhattan's small size - 13 miles long at the longest point and <5 miles at the widest, only 23 square miles in all - how many personal EV's are going to travel more than a Leaf's range before returning home?

what they dont say is how many of the 40 chargers they have now are public. guessing not very many yet