So I have decided to go with an electric car. I have been driving a built rockcrawler landcruiser getting around 7-8mpg for the last few years. I picked up a newer style 03 landcruiser but then made the mistake of building that one. I just can't afford the gas anymore so I decided to get a little commuter car for going to work and back every day. About 60 miles round trip. I has assumed that electric cars would be too expensive but I then started finding a ton of Leafs in the 7-9k range with under 50,000 miles. Why are they so cheap used? Is there some major design flaw I need to be aware of? I'm looking at the 2011-2012's since they are in my budges range. Is there certain features that are a MUST have for those years? I researched some on the leaf and found a major recall on the batteries and they should be swapped out to "hot batteries". I have no idea what that is or how you can tell the leaf has had the repair done. Are the "hot batteries" holding up better? Are those standard on later years? I also see lots of reviews about AC issues. What's the issue? How expensive is the repair? Under warranty? Sorry for all the questions but I figured it was better to just make one thread then to start a bunch of threads.
Looking for a leaf
- Thread starter bhicks
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Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:
Might want to start here....
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=14102
I will say that in that price range, the battery is likely going to be degraded to the point that a 60 mile trip will be difficult, unless of course you can charge at work, then you'll be good.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=14102
I will say that in that price range, the battery is likely going to be degraded to the point that a 60 mile trip will be difficult, unless of course you can charge at work, then you'll be good.
bhicks said:
You will get roughly 4 Miles per hour put in the battery when charging with 110. With 240 you'll get about 13 Miles per hour replaced. assuming you end up with a 2011 or 2012 model.
The answers to all these questions are peppered around the forum. When I joined 2 months ago, I had great luck with the search function, instead of having to wait for someone to come back and answer my questions, I had them in seconds. I'm impatient like that.
Valdemar
Well-known member
bhicks said:
If you're looking at 11/12 cars they will have some amount of battery degradation and it will take less time to charge it fully. This also means you may not be able to do you 60 mile commute on a single charge. It takes about 12 hours to fully charge my car from empty on 120V but basically I can no longer make it to work and back home 60 miles without charging on the way. Even with newer used Leafs 60 miles can be too close to the range anxiety zone, especially over time as range drops. And if you live in a colder climate running the heater and colder battery will surely require a charge at work or on the way, even if you buy one brand new (not talking about yet to be available 2016s with 30kWh packs that should do just fine).
As for the cost, think you'll need about 20kWh from the wall daily for your type of commute, check your POCO rates to come up with the $. Time of use rate is often a good choice with an EV but you should run the numbers for yourself too see what's better.
Thanks for all the info. I live at 6200ft elevation in the Socal mtns. We see well below zero temps for about 5 months out of the year. In regards to monthly increase in electric bill, I will look into the KW cost on my bill. could you give me a ball park figure on cost increase? It will basically be on the charger from when I get home from work (5pm) until I leave for work (6am). Am I looking at a $200+ a month increase or a minor $20ish a month increase. If my electric bill goes up as much as I would save on gas for a 35mpg little gas commuter car then it's rather pointless to go electric. If my electic bill goes up as much as one tank of gas for a month then I see the purpose of a EV.
Valdemar said:
Valdemar
Well-known member
What is the daily elevation change do you need to cover? What is your utility company and monthly kwh household consumption today? Do you run big loads, ie AC/pool pump during the day? Can you reliably charge at work?
Based on what you said so far a small 35mpg commuter car will likely be a better choice for you, or maybe a used Chevy Volt.
Based on what you said so far a small 35mpg commuter car will likely be a better choice for you, or maybe a used Chevy Volt.
Valdemar said:
My elevation change is over 4,000 ft per day. I go from 6,200 at home down to 2,000ft at work. It's all downhill coasting all the way to work. Will I use up any of the charge coasting down hill? The drive home is ALL uphill. My guess is hill climbs eat up a lot more power than flat roads. Am I correct on that assumption? At my house I don't run any AC nor do I own a pool. Our electric bill in the non winter months is around is $100. November through April is in the $150-175 range. I actually spent the last two weeks looking for a used Chevy Volt but could not find one under $12,000 within 500 miles of me. I found a ton of Leafs under 9k which is my max budget. I would prefer to find a $7500 range Leaf to have a little left over for tax, registration, and some minor upgrades. I think that is doable if I go with the Leaf. Not even close to doable on the Volt. I like the Volt more but they are just too expensive right now. The Volt also only has two seats in the back and I have 3 kids. My family of 5 can't fit in a Volt. Didn't figure that out until I went and test drove one a few days ago. That was the moment I decided to focus on the Leaf.
Edit: Just looked over my Edison bill and I'm using on average 500kwh per month at a rate of .25 cents per KWH.
Just went back and looked at your post about 20kwh per day for charging. That's $5 per day in charging x 30 days in a month; my electric bill will go up roughly $150 a month. that pretty much doubles my electric bill. My guess is that I will spend roughly twice that in gas. So going to an electric car saves me about $150 a month over the gas car BUT with WAY less range. I'm not sure that savings justifies the extreme limited range of the car. I need to do more research before I make this purchase. The numbers have to work before I make this jump. I really appreciate all the info I'm getting.
Valdemar
Well-known member
My first concern would be getting home from work, especially during winter. Forum member abasile also lives in the mountains and should be able to give his insight.
As for costs, if you remain on the SCE domestic plan aka Schedule D you may in fact end up paying over $150 more monthly just for charging your car, depends on your baseline allocation. If you can switch to TOU and charge the car between 10pm and 8am your cost for charging should be $50-$60 a month, but depending on you being able to limit other usage during peak hours 2-8pm you may pay more for your household usage. Another option is to install a dedicated EV service with its own TOU meter which gives you the most flexibility, but there are upfront costs and often significant. Do you have or considering solar by any chance?
As for costs, if you remain on the SCE domestic plan aka Schedule D you may in fact end up paying over $150 more monthly just for charging your car, depends on your baseline allocation. If you can switch to TOU and charge the car between 10pm and 8am your cost for charging should be $50-$60 a month, but depending on you being able to limit other usage during peak hours 2-8pm you may pay more for your household usage. Another option is to install a dedicated EV service with its own TOU meter which gives you the most flexibility, but there are upfront costs and often significant. Do you have or considering solar by any chance?
Valdemar
Well-known member
bhicks said:
It will be more than 25c/kwh as EV will surely send your consumption to more expensive tiers. Basically you need to be on TOU with SCE and charge at night to get a good rate. This may not be true in a couple of years after they implement the rate reform and eliminate expensive tiers.
TimLee
Well-known member
60 mile round tripbhicks said:
All downhill to work.
4000 foot climb going home
Might have 120V available at work, but has no detailed information.
Need price under 9K.
You need more details.
Need the 120V to be dedicated no other uses feed and certainty that employer or the landlord depending on who owns it will let you use it.
If not 100% certain that you can have dedicated use what you are considering is a bad idea.
Used 2011 / 2012 LEAFs are nominally 40 to 60 mile range, and in cold weather if you like heat 30 to 35 miles.
(Unless they won the capacity degradation warranty lottery and got a new battery.)
You are not going to need to charge very much at home. On your trip to to work, you should end up with more charge than you started with. I think that if you charge up to 50% at home, you should be adding only about 4-6 kWh overnight = $1.25. You'll get to work with more than 50% in the battery and s/b able to use their 120V outlet to get you plenty of juice for the trip home. Of course, YMMV.bhicks said:
Valdemar
Well-known member
billg said:
This is not exactly true. Regen is very limited at cold temperatures, and even more so in older Leafs with degraded packs that had P3227 update applied (most of them). Basically I would always plan for the 100% charge at home just to be on the safe side, unless the OP can charge at work. Like I said, the biggest concern is if the car can make the 30mile trip back home with more than 4000 feet elevation gain with heater running on a 100% charge, chances are a 2011 Leaf with the original pack will not be able to.
Valdemar said:
I have tried for years to get solar. None of the local solar carriers will offer it to me. They all come out to my property with confidence that it will happen and all leave with their tail between their legs. I live in a steep canyon in Forest Falls. The canyon walls basically block out the sun in the winter. The pines on my property also have to go. My roof slopes east and west and not the South/North they want. Basically my house is a worse case scenario for solar. It's a no go. I will look into the TOU with Edison to how viable an option that is. Sounds like it might be a great idea.
TimLee said:
One of the guys 4 spots down from me drives a volt. He plugs it in on the same wall (different outlet) that I'm considering using. He has been doing it for 2 years with no complaints. I will talk with him and see if he had to get it all arranged with our employer. I do have a question. Why is it so important to have the 120 outlet fully dedicated to only charging? Is there some special wall plug I have to use?
[/quote]This is not exactly true. Regen is very limited at cold temperatures, and even more so in older Leafs with degraded packs that had P3227 update applied (most of them). Basically I would always plan for the 100% charge at home just to be on the safe side, unless the OP can charge at work. Like I said, the biggest concern is if the car can make the 30mile trip back home with more than 4000 feet elevation gain with heater running on a 100% charge, chances are a 2011 Leaf with the original pack will not be able to.[/quote]
I keep hearing about the original packs loosing bars. I have found a few ads for leafs that mention only 5-6 bars available and they only have 40-50k on the odometer. That seems like a terrible design. There is no chance that car will ever hit 100k. What is the solution to that? All the threads I found about battery replacement were extremely vague on the cost to do that. I found one thread that mentioned price but it said $10,000 for the battery. Is that correct? If so, that's insane. That basically means that when the battery dies the cars has zero value since the cost of a used 1st gen with good battery is less then the repair. It's like owning a disposable car. You drive it until the battery runs out then just junk it. That may not be a bad approach if the batteries can go 500k but if they can't even get close to 100k then these cars seem like a technology joke.
I keep hearing about the original packs loosing bars. I have found a few ads for leafs that mention only 5-6 bars available and they only have 40-50k on the odometer. That seems like a terrible design. There is no chance that car will ever hit 100k. What is the solution to that? All the threads I found about battery replacement were extremely vague on the cost to do that. I found one thread that mentioned price but it said $10,000 for the battery. Is that correct? If so, that's insane. That basically means that when the battery dies the cars has zero value since the cost of a used 1st gen with good battery is less then the repair. It's like owning a disposable car. You drive it until the battery runs out then just junk it. That may not be a bad approach if the batteries can go 500k but if they can't even get close to 100k then these cars seem like a technology joke.
Valdemar
Well-known member
bhicks said:
Same plug. The Leaf draws 12A continuously, so any other non-trivial load e.g. a coffee maker on the same circuit will likely cause the breaker to flip, especially if it is only a 15A circuit.
Valdemar
Well-known member
bhicks said:
There is capacity warranty for up to 60 months/60000 miles, if the car drops to 8 bars or less Nissan will replace the battery under this warranty, so a 2011 car with 6 capacity bars that has 40-50k on the odometer may be a good find as you can get a free new battery. You should confirm with Nissan if the car is eligible for such warranty replacement before buying.
Out of pocket battery replacement will cost 5-6k, one of the MNL members just recently got his replaced for $5,500.
Yes, 2011 cars were not a good investment as it turned out. I expect to be able to squeeze 120,000 miles out of my battery but with greatly reduced range, so I will have to charge on the road more and more. It all depends how far you need to drive daily, if all you need is 30-40 miles and have a second car for occasional long trip the Leaf will be usable for quite a while.
