Longest Range Pontifications

[TonyWilliams]

On one of the other threads, there are musings as to what is the actual longest distance, and at what speed.

So, I think I found a reasonable test area for a long distance run (from San Diego). On Interstate 8, from the Dunaway Road exit just west of Imperial/Calexico, California, to Gordons Well exit 151, 20 miles west of Imperial/Calexico.

It's exactly 50 miles, right at sea level (so no density altitude issues), and it could be driven at night with low traffic and temperatures much closer to "standard". Also, there won't be much wind at night. The range of elevation starts at under 100 feet, and goes to just below sea level, and then back up to slightly over 100 feet.

But, I'd have to have an auxillary light source (I have that; super bright HID lights from our off road racing bikes) so that I'm not running traction battery power. Also, I'd have to trailer the car there (about 104 miles). I called the Nissan dealer in Imperial, and they had no idea what I was talking about for a LEAF charger. That will be middle America for many years, unfortunately.

Also, my tow vehicle can run as a rear end crash barrier, running the 4 way flashers, and follow the LEAF at 28-ish mph for almost 5 hours !!

I'll have to rent a car carrier, since I don't have one. Any other ideas? I'll definitely film and record SOC numbers, etc.

Tony

 

[EVDRIVER]

On one of the other threads, there are musings as to what is the actual longest distance, and at what speed.

So, I think I found a reasonable test area for a long distance run (from San Diego). On Interstate 8, from the Dunaway Road exit just west of Imperial/Calexico, California, to Gordons Well exit 151, 20 miles west of Imperial/Calexico.

It's exactly 50 miles, right at sea level (so no density altitude issues), and it could be driven at night with low traffic and temperatures much closer to "standard". Also, there won't be much wind at night. The range of elevation starts at under 100 feet, and goes to just below sea level, and then back up to slightly over 100 feet.

But, I'd have to have an auxillary light source (I have that; super bright HID lights from our off road racing bikes) so that I'm not running traction battery power. Also, I'd have to trailer the car there (about 104 miles). I called the Nissan dealer in Imperial, and they had no idea what I was talking about for a LEAF charger. That will be middle America for many years, unfortunately.

Also, my tow vehicle can run as a rear end crash barrier, running the 4 way flashers, and follow the LEAF at 28-ish mph for almost 5 hours !!

I'll have to rent a car carrier, since I don't have one. Any other ideas? I'll definitely film and record SOC numbers, etc.

Tony

I don't understand the light comment, the headlights are insignificant to your range so use them. If you need to charge at a dealer with no charge station then use a modified Nissan EVSE as most dealers and other places have 240 outlets.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I don't understand the light comment, the headlights are insignificant to your range so use them. If you need to charge at a dealer with no charge station then use a modified Nissan EVSE as most dealers and other places have 240 outlets.

I won't be charging out there. The car will arrive @ 100%, be driven 5 hours to dead, loaded on trailer, and taken home.

As to the lights, how much energy does 5 hours of lights burn? I haven't measured it, but if it's 10 amps, or 125 watts, over 5 hours... I don't find that insignificant. Remember, high beam is incandescent.

 

[Smidge204]

As to the lights, how much energy does 5 hours of lights burn? I haven't measured it, but if it's 10 amps, or 125 watts, over 5 hours... I don't find that insignificant.

A whole ~3 miles at 5 mi/kwh :roll:

Well, I guess that kinda is significant for what you're trying to do!
=Smidge=

 

[TomT]

Assuming that you have replaced the license plate and parking light bulbs with LEDs, and don't use high-beams or fog lights, it is about 25 watts... The high-beams are energy suckers - 110 watts for the pair.

I don't understand the light comment, the headlights are insignificant to your range so use them. If you need to charge at a dealer with no charge station then use a modified Nissan EVSE as most dealers and other places have 240 outlets.

I won't be charging out there. The car will arrive @ 100%, be driven 5 hours to dead, loaded on trailer, and taken home.

As to the lights, how much energy does 5 hours of lights burn? I haven't measured it, but if it's 10 amps, or 125 watts, over 5 hours... I don't find that insignificant. Remember, high beam is incandescent.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I plan a 100% stock run. Nothing different from delivery specification. The front license plate holder was not installed on mine, and to my knowledge is dealer installed on some / most cars.

Stock tire pressure, weight (no spare tire in rear!), etc. No radio, fan, headlights.

Tony

 

[davewill]

Don't get written up for running those extra lights. The off-road guys have to cover their lights when driving on the street.

 

[planet4ever]

So with low beams and everything stock, what would the lighting be? Maybe 30 to 40 watts for 5 hours? It sounds like no more than 0.2 kWh, so less than 1%. The bigger question for me is what you are going to know when you get to the end of your 100 miles, which I expect you can complete handily. Even a slight breeze or elevation change could invalidate the results if you were to continue. Knowing SOC at the end is useful, but do we really know that the SOC numbers are linear down at the bottom end?

Ray

 

[TonyWilliams]

The bigger question for me is what you are going to know when you get to the end of your 100 miles, which I expect you can complete handily.

I plan to drive at 28 mph, or whatever other number seems likely, to about 135 miles to 140 miles, when I predict the battery will be "dead".

Even a slight breeze or elevation change could invalidate the results if you were to continue. Knowing SOC at the end is useful, but do we really know that the SOC numbers are linear down at the bottom end?

The test is planned for all night, when little wind is present. Also, the proposed course is virtually level, and straight. Finally, any wind will be made negligible when the course is reversed. There is aviation weather reporting at Imperial and Mexicali, which includes temperatures and winds. The weather right now at IPL airport is:

KIPL 092353Z AUTO VRB03KT 10SM CLR 43/03 A2962 RMK AO2 SLP031 T04280033 10433 20361 56024

The wind is variable at 3 knots, and the temp is 43 C (about 110F), sea level pressure 1003.1, at 29.62 inches of mercury. That's about all the data I need.

Google maps was used to determine the elevation, but I can also use GPS.

 

[pasowino]

Sounds like a cool experiment. Even with high beams on at 110 watts x 5 hours, that's only going to be a couple miles range reduction, but I get why you don't want to run them. Can't wait to see your results!

 

[surfingslovak]

Very cool experiment, I wish I could do something to help.

 

[Train]

Am I reading this right? You're going to drive your car at about 28 mph on a 70 mph freeway?

 

[gbarry42]

If you need lights, you have to use them. No cheating. It's whatever the vehicle can do. Otherwise, you should use your tow vehicle to push the car, so that going down the road doesn't use up the traction battery either

 

[Herm]

at 5 hours you are likely to run into a hwy patrolman, and you will get a ticket for hazardous driving.

Do it right, modify your can bus meter to read actual kwh used and test closer to home.. also I believe pumping up your tires to max sidewall pressure will save you a lot more energy than the headlights use.

I believe the normal headlights are LED, but the highbeams are incandescent?

 

[TonyWilliams]

at 5 hours you are likely to run into a hwy patrolman, and you will get a ticket for hazardous driving.

Yes, there is that possibility. That's when I tell him/her that my super scary and weird electric car is acting up, and I'm just trying to get it to the next off ramp. I can mumble, "Gee, I'll never get one of these things again".

As to the slow on a 70mph freeway, yes, at about midnight to 5 am, probably Saturday night/Sunday morning when traffic is lightest, way out in the desert, with a chase vehicle and lots of flashing lights. Believe me, it will be safer than some of my high speed tests!

The chase vehicle will be towing a trailer, and on the back of the trailer can be a generator running a big yellow left arrow, just like the highway department.

Do it right, modify your can bus meter to read actual kwh used and test closer to home.. also I believe pumping up your tires to max sidewall pressure will save you a lot more energy than the headlights use.

We don't yet have actual kWh usage in real time, and closer to home is insane. Too many people on cell phones driving their SUV at 80 mph. Also, the PRIMARY reason that I chose this course is level, straight, and sea level elevation. We don't have that anywhere in San Diego county.

Pumping up the tires wouldn't be a "stock" car. Any changes suggested to the stock car are just that; changes that affect the final number. My single biggest issues, I think, will be outside temperature.

Perhaps one of the battery experts here can tell me what the IDEAL outside temperature is for these batteries. Right now, the desert is probably too hot at the hours proposed.

I believe the normal headlights are LED, but the highbeams are incandescent?

Yes. Another idea is to use the stock headlights, but add a battery to run them. The idea is that if this were done in the day time, the headlights would not be necessary. So, I don't see that as a compromise. Obviously, the final result will specify the conditions used, and I want those conditions to be "standard", and not best case.

No hills, tailwinds, density altitude (air density) and temperatures as close to standard as can be done, minimum static electrical consumption that anybody could do (i.e, turning off the navigation display, the fan, the radio, no traction power for the headlights to mimic a day time run). Stock car, to include tire pressure, and no front license plate.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Otherwise, you should use your tow vehicle to push the car, so that going down the road doesn't use up the traction battery either

Well... I was thinking about that. What if I need to stop for any reason? Certainly a compromise to range as I would be forced to accellerate back up to 28-ish.

So, at a stop, the mileage counter would be interrupted while the car is put in neutral to coast to a stop. Then, a push up to 35, allow car to coast down to 28, then drive and let the mileage counter resume.

Whacha think?

Edit: I just realized that the power consumption is off the wheels turning speed, so I'd need a way to turn off that signal also.

 

[davewill]

You could turn laps around Fiesta Island...might get a little monotonous, but the speed would be normal for that road, the elevation would be constant, and you could do it in daylight.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Not sure if that's open at night, and no way would I do that during tourist season or daylight hours with bikes, etc. Too many possibilities of getting stopped in the day time.

Great suggestion, though. Sea level, temperatures are perfect, no elevation changes, and a circle. It's almost a test track!

 

[Train]

It's interesting you're trying to get data for your experiment but trying this on a public freeway is hazardous. You stand an very good chance of getting a citation and getting your vehicle towed. Even when oversized loads are traveling, they have notified the authorities, have authorized spotting vehicles and go 50-55 mph.

28 mph on a 70 mph freeway is more than just slow, it's dangerous and if I may add, irresponsible. You are going to be a danger to others and yourself.

I would really recommend not doing this. Other drivers are going to phone in "some guy doing about 30 mph, I don't know, maybe he's drunk or something."

Semi trucks take those routes at night all the time. You present a serious hazard to yourself and other drivers using this road in this manner. Some trucker takes a bend where you are just out of eysight and all of a sudden he's on top of you.

I would seriously reconsider. It's illegal and it's dangerous.

Traveling at 28 mph on a road where people are travelling between 55-70 mph because you want to experiment is very puzzling.

You may well end up performing a field sobriety test for CHP.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Ok, I did a lap around Fiesta Island. Some of those turns are tough at 27mph, but here's the result: