Lease Buyout?

[DaveinOlyWA]

...

I looked at the math of buying (if I could use all the credits) and compared it to lease and all totalled up, if I leased for 3 years and then purcashed the car at the end I'd pay $400 more for a lease.

...

On the 2013 the residual amounts were so much above market value of used 2013 LEAFs that NMAC has been offering $5,000 reductions to get leasees to buy them.

With the rumored Gen 2 2017 LEAF with option of 48 kWh pack being out in late 2016, it is likely that the market value will drop quickly on a 2015 LEAF.

If lease is only $400 more over three years it would be better to just do the lease for three years and then decide if it is smart to purchase it at the end of the lease.

Very possible that NMAC will still be offering substantial reductions of the residual price.

Big part of why leasing has been much better choice at least from 2013 forward.

Sorry Correction. I'd pay $4000 more not $400.

you ask us to show you the math but you don't show us yours??

because I think you have an error in there somewhere...

 

[DuncanCunningham]

you ask us to show you the math but you don't show us yours??

because I think you have an error in there somewhere...

I didn't have any numbers at the time since I've not done a deal with Nissan yet. I went into the dealership, sat down, looked at buying new, leasing or buying one of their used ones. I wrote all the numbers down and review each one. Unfortunately I lost that paper after I left the shop.

New was about 26,500 and then the tax rebates of 7500 plus UT state of 1500 bringing the cost down to about 17k and something ( plus taxes etc). I found out that I would not benenfit from those since I've either not earned enough or have more than enough deductions already that I'd not use more than $2000 of the $9000. So a purchase NEW was not as great as I first thought.

Then I looked at leased, but I've always thought that leasing was bad idea. The dealers savings on leased are no where near as good, as you don't get the tax rebates. Totallying up the lease payments and then the buyout amount at the end apeared to bring me back to $26500 or close, plus taxes etc.

I now have the numbers of an example lease (I'll post in another reply) but I was hoping to see what others have seen.

 

[DuncanCunningham]

here is a link to the lease i copied up into a spreadsheet and then printed to a pdf.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B99gmTEY7mYvX1NQaFUzc1lrSm8/view?usp=sharing

The basics.

Price of the car: $32,194
rebates: $8,750
my down payment: $3,399
Lease amount per month: $257.75 ($241 plus taxes)
total amounts paid $12,678 ($3,399 + $9,279)
residual amount at end of lease: $12,323
total amounts paid if purchased the car at end of lease: $25,301

I'm not sure I read all the details right, I think the leases are written to confuse and it's almost like the document is written backwards from bottom to top to figure out the numbers fully. I figure that I will have paid over $25k for the car if I keep it after the lease end yet the lease paperwork tries to make the downpayment look as though it was the dealers allowance or rebate.

 

[LightningLeaf]

you ask us to show you the math but you don't show us yours??

because I think you have an error in there somewhere...

New was about 26,500 and then the tax rebates of 7500 plus UT state of 1500 bringing the cost down to about 17k and something ( plus taxes etc). I found out that I would not benenfit from those since I've either not earned enough or have more than enough deductions already that I'd not use more than $2000 of the $9000. So a purchase NEW was not as great as I first thought.

Then I looked at leased, but I've always thought that leasing was bad idea. The dealers savings on leased are no where near as good, as you don't get the tax rebates. Totallying up the lease payments and then the buyout amount at the end apeared to bring me back to $26500 or close, plus taxes etc.

This is interesting, are you saying dealer is not giving you $7500 federal tax credit to you when leasing? Leasing is the only way for me to claim the full $7500 federal tax credit. I can't claim federal tax credit if I buy.

$26,500 is a great price and with leasing, your net capitalized cost could be at $17000 range.

In my case, negotiated price of the car was $29,000 and with federal tax credit and rebates in California, my net capitalized cost was $20,000, with residual value of $12,000. The starting cost of car was not $29,000 due to additional charges of acquisition fee and taxes.

By the way, do not pre-pay the lease payment in lump sum. Nissan finance already paid GAP insurance in the event that car is totalled and if one pre-pays, it is unlikely you will get your money back.

If one buys, make sure you have GAP insurance for the same reason.

 

[LightningLeaf]

here is a link to the lease i copied up into a spreadsheet and then printed to a pdf.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B99gmTEY7mYvX1NQaFUzc1lrSm8/view?usp=sharing

The basics.

Price of the car: $32,194
rebates: $8,750
my down payment: $3,399
Lease amount per month: $257.75 ($241 plus taxes)
total amounts paid $12,678 ($3,399 + $9,279)
residual amount at end of lease: $12,323
total amounts paid if purchased the car at end of lease: $25,301

I'm not sure I read all the details right, I think the leases are written to confuse and it's almost like the document is written backwards from bottom to top to figure out the numbers fully. I figure that I will have paid over $25k for the car if I keep it after the lease end yet the lease paperwork tries to make the downpayment look as though it was the dealers allowance or rebate.

My bad, looks like dealer did give you the federal tax credit. As matter of fact, you received $11,200 in rebates.

I think there might be an error in the lease agreement and would check with the dealer. The 3 years lease should have only 35 payments since 1st payment is in the down payment so 35 months payment total should be $9021.25.

It is very difficult to figure out lease agreement, there is always around $1000 that doesn't add up because the way the numbers are presented.

The biggest number that we can control is negotiated price. Is this Leaf S with QC?

 

[DuncanCunningham]

The basics.

Price of the car: $32,194
rebates: $8,750
my down payment: $3,399
Lease amount per month: $257.75 ($241 plus taxes)
total amounts paid $12,678 ($3,399 + $9,279)
residual amount at end of lease: $12,323
total amounts paid if purchased the car at end of lease: $25,301

I'm not sure I read all the details right, I think the leases are written to confuse and it's almost like the document is written backwards from bottom to top to figure out the numbers fully. I figure that I will have paid over $25k for the car if I keep it after the lease end yet the lease paperwork tries to make the downpayment look as though it was the dealers allowance or rebate.

My bad, looks like dealer did give you the federal tax credit. As matter of fact, you received $11,200 in rebates.

I think there might be an error in the lease agreement and would check with the dealer. The 3 years lease should have only 35 payments since 1st payment is in the down payment so 35 months payment total should be $9021.25.

It is very difficult to figure out lease agreement, there is always around $1000 that doesn't add up because the way the numbers are presented.

The biggest number that we can control is negotiated price. Is this Leaf S with QC?

I thought that at first but then noticed that they counted my downpayment of $3,399 inside that $11,222. a bit naughty.

 

[LightningLeaf]

[/quote]I thought that at first but then noticed that they counted my downpayment of $3,399 inside that $11,222. a bit naughty.[/quote]

I think the negotiated price is a little high, I would counter by saying "Would you take $29,050?"

Once they offer another price, I would reply "Is that the best you can do?".

By lowering the negotiated price, your monthly payment would be lower assuming the percentage of depreciation does not change.

Based on your money factor, you have awesome credit score and should get a good deal.

Few other tips:

Buy or lease at the last weekend of the month. Since dealerships do get a bonus if certain goals are met.
Don't discuss about trade in. They can low ball the price on the trade in.
Dealers are only interested in selling car in their lot TODAY. So check Nissan website and company website to confirm the inventory.
It would entice them by telling them that you can drive the car away TODAY!
Resist dealer offering for rust proofing, extended warranty and other add on stuff. There is another advantage to buy at the last weekend of the month, since these add ons would take another week for delivery.
Of course, no need to low ball the price since dealers do need to make a profit. So any price around invoice price is reasonable for everyone.

You can use web sites that negotiate pre-determined price, such as TrueCars.com also.

Once in dealership, be prepared to stick around for 3-5 hours. Feel free to walk around and gather your thoughts.

I had a positive experience with my dealership. The negotiated price was done through text messages and I met the fleet manager for paperwork immediately.

 

[DuncanCunningham]

The biggest number that we can control is negotiated price. Is this Leaf S with QC?

Yes, Model S with QC.

Good advice on the other post too. thanks.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

leasing verses buying. already a ton of verbiage on the topic so not going into a lot of details since personal situations throw millions of variables into the mix but for me it was easy.

One question; Do I plan to keep this car longer than 5 years?

Yes; buy... NO; lease. Sorry but the range is simply not what I am willing to put up with long term. Its a great car that has accomplished little more than a great start in the EV space. It is far past time to see if the "greatness" albeit a bit slow, continues