Leafs giving Leafs a bad name !!

[Valdemar]

Can you really expect someone who still has the original "World Car of the year 2011" rear window sticker on their car to drive faster than 55mph on the freeway?

 

[GRA]

Hey....maybe that Leaf was on VLB, and was trying to conserve electricity until he reached an exit?? Or, maybe he had a mechanical malfunction of some kind. At any rate, I can't find any requirement in the CA Vehicle Code to drive "at or above" the posted speed limit.

You didn't look hard enough. From the CVC:

21654. (a) Notwithstanding the prima facie speed limits, any
vehicle proceeding upon a highway at a speed less than the normal
speed of traffic moving in the same direction at such time shall be
driven in the right-hand lane for traffic or as close as practicable
to the right-hand edge or curb, except when overtaking and passing
another vehicle proceeding in the same direction or when preparing
for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or
driveway.
(b) If a vehicle is being driven at a speed less than the normal
speed of traffic moving in the same direction at such time, and is
not being driven in the right-hand lane for traffic or as close as
practicable to the right-hand edge or curb, it shall constitute prima
facie evidence that the driver is operating the vehicle in violation
of subdivision (a) of this section.

22400. (a) No person shall drive upon a highway at such a slow
speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of
traffic unless the reduced speed is necessary for safe operation,
because of a grade, or in compliance with law.

 

[TomT]

Fine, but get out of the carpool lane if such is the case! That is an even worse excuse to be there...

Hey....maybe that Leaf was on VLB, and was trying to conserve electricity until he reached an exit?? Or, maybe he had a mechanical malfunction of some kind.

 

[ElectricEddy]

So what happens when you do drive in the right hand lane doing the speed limit and the tailgater behind you is too lazy to expedite the passing maneuver via the open lane on the left ? In this case I usually pull into the left lane and let the speeder pass me on the right, hopefully clearing any radar (or photo detection ) ahead. I know from previous experience using those HOV lanes people tend to cut in suddenly so an extra precaution is necessary perhaps slightly less than the posted speed limit (within reason). I am so grateful to live in a place where I don't have to deal with a lot of that (like Vancouver or So. Cal) and tend to enjoy the driving experience now (lots of mountains and ocean as a background) keep a reasonable speed while remaining courteous of others. And yes , I too own the road!

 

[Stoaty]

If traffic is going a lot slower in the other lanes, it probably isn't safe to go faster than 55 MPH. A lot of drivers consider the double yellow lines separating the carpool lane from the other lanes an optional suggestion.

 

[cwerdna]

It actually IS fairly common, unfortunately... I see Priuses doing this all the time as well and they are one of the biggest offenders! ]

I don't know what it is about the Prius but they seem to have an over-represented percentage of bad/rude/arrogant drivers...

Many of the previous replies show why so many Leaf/ prius/ whatever owners are widely despised by normal people.

Here in Houston it is Lexus drivers IME. Most of the Prii I see are either driving "normally" or like a bat out of hell.

As for the two contrasts, once can see complaints about both extremes at http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_11917435?nclick_check=1.

As someone w/a Prius as my other car, I find the stereotype unfair and untrue. I don't go slow in the fast lane in either of my cars and I yield to faster cars. The next time you see a slow poke, whatever lane they're in, check to see if it's a Prius. Most of the time, it's not. But yes, I have witnessed rather to very slow Priuses in the left lane, including So Cal.

 

[TomT]

Most people don't realize that crossing the double yellow, at least in California , is one of the biggest dollar value tickets there is...
And yes, when the traffic next to me is going slowly or stopped I drop well below the limit in the HOV... But I believe the OP's discussion point was when this was NOT the case...

If traffic is going a lot slower in the other lanes, it probably isn't safe to go faster than 55 MPH. A lot of drivers consider the double yellow lines separating the carpool lane from the other lanes an optional suggestion.

 

[AndyGT02]

I drive at 55 all the time when I need to stretch my range. Usually in the right lane, but sometimes in the middle if the right is jammed. It's not wrong and certainly not illegal since it's the ACTUAL speed limit posted on the highway around here. If you want to go 80, pass me and go 80. Just don't whine about it because I choose not to speed up and break the law. I love it when pickups (and BMW's) tailgate and flash their lights behind me because they want to go 90. They get a nice dose of strong regen B mode braking from me.

 

[Rat]

I think people here have missed a subtle but important point. The OP is in southern California. You can see in the original photo the divider between the HOV lane and the others. Until I got stuck in one of those on a visit down there I didn't realize that HOV lanes there are different from the ones here in Northern California. Up here, the lane next to the HOV lane is separated only by a single painted stripe. In southern Cal, there is a physical raised barrier separating them and cars can only get in and out of the HOV lane at a few points miles apart. I was unaware of this and had to drive over that barrier to make my exit and it wasn't something I want to do my car again.

The importance is that where the OP is, the danger of another car jumping in front from a standstill is almost nil, while up here where I am, it happens all the time. Thus it really is dangerous to be going 65 here when the lane next to you is going 10 - 15 or even 0 MPH. That's why I almost never use the HOV lane. I'm retired and almost never have to be anywhere fast. I just keep an audiobook in the car, get in the right lane and listen to a good story as I go at a crawl during rush hour. However, I agree with the OP that if it is safe to go the speed limit, you should do it there, or get into the other lanes. If it's not safe, for the reason I stated, in my experience the other cars in the HOV lane are also going a bit slow, maybe 45 - 50, to avoid the rear-end collision when someone jumps in front and people don't tailgate.

 

[GRA]

I drive at 55 all the time when I need to stretch my range. Usually in the right lane, but sometimes in the middle if the right is jammed. It's not wrong and certainly not illegal since it's the ACTUAL speed limit posted on the highway around here. If you want to go 80, pass me and go 80. Just don't whine about it because I choose not to speed up and break the law. I love it when pickups (and BMW's) tailgate and flash their lights behind me because they want to go 90. They get a nice dose of strong regen B mode braking from me.

In California it is illegal, as the cite from the CVC I posted above shows. To repeat:

21654. (a) Notwithstanding the prima facie speed limits, any
vehicle proceeding upon a highway at a speed less than the normal
speed of traffic moving in the same direction at such time shall be
driven in the right-hand lane for traffic or as close as practicable
to the right-hand edge or curb, except when overtaking and passing
another vehicle proceeding in the same direction or when preparing
for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or
driveway.

b) If a vehicle is being driven at a speed less than the normal
speed of traffic moving in the same direction at such time, and is
not being driven in the right-hand lane for traffic or as close as
practicable to the right-hand edge or curb, it shall constitute prima
facie evidence that the driver is operating the vehicle in violation
of subdivision (a) of this section.

IOW, if you're doing 65 in the middle rather than the right lane when that's the speed limit, and the traffic is moving at 70, it shall constitute prima facie evidence that the driver is operating the vehicle in violation of subdivision (a) of this section.

 

[Valdemar]

Every time I'm in the carpool lane and moving and the rest of the freeway is not moving I get very nervous. Even if doing 40mph some idiot may jump in front of you leaving no time to slow down, double yellow lines help somewhat but I routinely see people jumping them.

 

[jpadc]

Well, I'm with the OP on this in general. But in my opinion, allowing SOVs that happen to be Hybrid/Electric/Whatever to use dedicated HOV lanes is and was bad public policy. Yes, doing so likely has helped reduce polluting gases / smog as such cars contribute less and it MIGHT have encourage more people to buy them (including many here). But likely such policy also served to increase the negative public perception about such cars by non-owners and its hard to say how much it really INCREASED versus depressed sales.

The other and more important reason it was bad policy (IMHO) was that it did NOTHING to solve the real problem which was (and clearly still is) too many cars and not enough lanes. Saving HOV lanes for 2 or more people cuts the number of cars on the road in half or more. That would be better for everyone.

 

[GRA]

Well, I'm with the OP on this in general. But in my opinion, allowing SOVs that happen to be Hybrid/Electric/Whatever to use dedicated HOV lanes is and was bad public policy. Yes, doing so likely has helped reduce polluting gases / smog as such cars contribute less and it MIGHT have encourage more people to buy them (including many here). But likely such policy also served to increase the negative public perception about such cars by non-owners and its hard to say how much it really INCREASED versus depressed sales.

The other and more important reason it was bad policy (IMHO) was that it did NOTHING to solve the real problem which was (and clearly still is) too many cars and not enough lanes. Saving HOV lanes for 2 or more people cuts the number of cars on the road in half or more. That would be better for everyone.

You won't get an argument from me, as I've always been (at best) ambivalent about SOV in the HOV lanes. In California, there's no doubt whatsoever that it has increased sales of PEVs, especially in the LA and SF metro areas. But it's essentially a perk for the well off, Lexus Lanes by another name. The critical thing will be whether we've reached the point, by the time the HOV privileges expire on 1/1/19 (which is two years later than I thought they should have been extended to), that PEVs/FCEVs can sustain (indeed, expand) sales without them. IOW, have they gained enough value/capability compared to ICEs that normal people will consider them without the HOV perk, which is worth thousands of dollars in time savings to the typical high-income PEV buyer/lessee now? The sales of the 2nd gen cars will be the make or break moment, especially as the federal tax credit will be running out for some of the manufacturers about the same time as the HOV stickers expire.

 

[AndyGT02]

Interesting - I didn't know that. I'm in MA so the same may or may not be true. CA should increase the speed limit or find a way to make it clear that the limit no longer applies in certain circumstances.

 

[jpadc]

In California, there's no doubt whatsoever that it has increased sales of PEVs, especially in the LA and SF metro areas.

You say that, but I'm one of those people that loves to see empirical data. Do you know of any? There are certainly more of such cars in those locations than other places, but is that the reason? I can think of several alternative hypotheses for that. While I think it has decreased in recent years, there has been a lot of "hate" for the Prius (and its because of the Prius this whole policy started) and I'm not sure such hatred is not, at least in part, due to such policies. Many people could not afford the higher initial price of such vehicles and that people who could afford them got special privileges might have been just one more reason to hate them... I love your:

But it's essentially a perk for the well off, Lexus Lanes by another name.

I believe such resentment could have decreased sales of what otherwise would have been a financially better purchase (until gas prices fell anyway). Do you know of any studies on this? All I have is speculation...

P.S. Note to Moderators - this is on topic as it discussed why some people may not like LEAFs

 

[GRA]

In California, there's no doubt whatsoever that it has increased sales of PEVs, especially in the LA and SF metro areas.

You say that, but I'm one of those people that loves to see empirical data. Do you know of any? There are certainly more of such cars in those locations than other places, but is that the reason? I can think of several alternative hypotheses for that. While I think it has decreased in recent years, there has been a lot of "hate" for the Prius (and its because of the Prius this whole policy started) and I'm not sure such hatred is not, at least in part, due to such policies. Many people could not afford the higher initial price of such vehicles and that people who could afford them got special privileges might have been just one more reason to hate them... I love your:

But it's essentially a perk for the well off, Lexus Lanes by another name.

I believe such resentment could have decreased sales of what otherwise would have been a financially better purchase (until gas prices fell anyway). Do you know of any studies on this? All I have is speculation...

P.S. Note to Moderators - this is on topic as it discussed why some people may not like LEAFs

I've posted surveys on MNL in the past which detailed the reasons why people opted for a PEV in California, but I think it was at least two years ago, and finding them will likely be difficult. I'll try some searches and post the links if I find them.

Edit: Well, lucked out and found the one I was thinking of: https://energycenter.org/sites/default/files/docs/nav/transportation/cvrp/survey-results/California_Plug-in_Electric_Vehicle_Driver_Survey_Results-May_2013.pdf

See page 12, Ownership motivation

 

[wwhitney]

In California it is illegal, as the cite from the CVC I posted above shows.

I don't think that section would apply to someone doing 55 in an HOV lane in a 65 zone when the regular lanes are going less than 55 mph. If nobody is going above 55 mph, how can you say that the "normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at such time" is above 55 mph?

As to the OP, the roads are shared. If we're driving in a 65 mph zone, and the regular lanes are moving at less than 55 mph, why should your desire to drive 65mph or 75mph in the HOV lane trump my desire to drive 55 mph in the HOV lane? I agree that if the regular lanes are going 55 mph or more, I should just move out of the HOV lane.

Personally, I think we should reinstate the 55mph speed limit.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[gemrough]

In California it is illegal, as the cite from the CVC I posted above shows.

I don't think that section would apply to someone doing 55 in an HOV lane in a 65 zone when the regular lanes are going less than 55 mph. If nobody is going above 55 mph, how can you say that the "normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at such time" is above 55 mph?

As to the OP, the roads are shared. If we're driving in a 65 mph zone, and the regular lanes are moving at less than 55 mph, why should your desire to drive 65mph or 75mph in the HOV lane trump my desire to drive 55 mph in the HOV lane? I agree that if the regular lanes are going 55 mph or more, I should just move out of the HOV lane.

Personally, I think we should reinstate the 55mph speed limit.

Cheers, Wayne

I think GRA was referring to driving 55 in a 55 zone (in the middle lane) while other traffic if flowing at 70mph.

 

[GRA]

In California it is illegal, as the cite from the CVC I posted above shows.

I don't think that section would apply to someone doing 55 in an HOV lane in a 65 zone when the regular lanes are going less than 55 mph. If nobody is going above 55 mph, how can you say that the "normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at such time" is above 55 mph?

As to the OP, the roads are shared. If we're driving in a 65 mph zone, and the regular lanes are moving at less than 55 mph, why should your desire to drive 65mph or 75mph in the HOV lane trump my desire to drive 55 mph in the HOV lane? I agree that if the regular lanes are going 55 mph or more, I should just move out of the HOV lane.

Personally, I think we should reinstate the 55mph speed limit.

Cheers, Wayne

I think GRA was referring to driving 55 in a 55 zone (in the middle lane) while other traffic if flowing at 70mph.

Or any other speed up to and exceeding the speed limit. As a highway patrolman told my dad many decades ago, "I don't care if you're speeding 100 mph, if the traffic's doing 105, you shouldn't be impeding them." That's why the law is written as it is, to prevent left- (and middle) lane bandits from impeding the free-flow of traffic.

 

[wwhitney]

I think GRA was referring to driving 55 in a 55 zone (in the middle lane) while other traffic if flowing at 70mph.

In AndyGT02's post that GRA replied to, AndyGT02 says when driving 55 mph he drives "usually in the right lane, but sometimes in the middle if the right is jammed." If he's passing people in the right lane, the CVC section doesn't apply; the relevant language is "except when overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction".

Cheers, Wayne