Leaf vs Civic NGV

[ishiyakazuo]

So, there will be an all-electric offering from Honda. Sounds like they don't want to put all eggs in one basket after all. Is Toyota next?

I get the impression that Honda doesn't know where they are going. They are just trying everything and seeing what sticks. I guess the CNG Civic didn't "stick". I'm glad they are working on a BEV. The Fit EV is a nice little car. It has severe range issues in the cold (the worst offender than I know of), but that's something that can be fixed.

Toyota, on the other hand, seems hell-bent on making Fuel Cells become the future of transportation. If they succeed in convincing governments to pay for the massively expensive infrastructure, they will be so far ahead that they will simply crush the other companies. But I don't see that happening.

Even if the fuel cell takes off, I think there's still a strong place for BEVs -- specifically, it's for those who want to recharge at home with a commuter vehicle. I don't think the pricing of fuel cell recharges will be compelling enough to get people into the cars for awhile.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

So, there will be an all-electric offering from Honda. Sounds like they don't want to put all eggs in one basket after all. Is Toyota next?

I get the impression that Honda doesn't know where they are going. They are just trying everything and seeing what sticks. I guess the CNG Civic didn't "stick". I'm glad they are working on a BEV. The Fit EV is a nice little car. It has severe range issues in the cold (the worst offender than I know of), but that's something that can be fixed.

Toyota, on the other hand, seems hell-bent on making Fuel Cells become the future of transportation. If they succeed in convincing governments to pay for the massively expensive infrastructure, they will be so far ahead that they will simply crush the other companies. But I don't see that happening.

Even if the fuel cell takes off, I think there's still a strong place for BEVs -- specifically, it's for those who want to recharge at home with a commuter vehicle. I don't think the pricing of fuel cell recharges will be compelling enough to get people into the cars for awhile.

Since we're dreaming here - why not have it both ways? Since FCVs are EVs at heart, put a larger battery and a charger on board and make it a Fuel Cell-EREV.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Does this mean that the Natural Gas Vehicle is basically done for? It almost seems strange, in a time of cheap and "abundant" natural gas in the US. We have infinitely more Natural Gas fueling stations (a handful) around here than Quick Chargers (0). Many of the Syracuse city buses run on CNG. Many of the local fleets, such as National Grid, run on it too.

Does anyone besides Honda actually sell a NGV passenger car in the US?

 

[redLEAF]

The sales numbers for the Civic CNG model were never all that great; one source says that they sold about 16K in total since '98; only 751 in '14

http://www.usnews.com/news/business...ause-honda-to-scrub-natural-gas-hybrid-civics

http://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelkanellos/2015/01/19/sales-of-hondas-natural-gas-civic-plummet/

Here in IL, we have few 'consumer' available CNG stations around but lots for fleets (a fair number of trash trucks, buses, etc.) like elsewhere; the home refilling station I recall from a few years back that Honda themselves promoted was the Phill system that cost around $4,500 (they dropped it in '12); as 'bad' as some of the prices early on for home EVSE chargers were can you imagine if you were one of the early adopters that paid that much?

http://www.fuelfreedom.org/garage-filling-stations-are-we-getting-close/

With the absolutely huge reserves in the U.S. of natural gas (we've started exporting, who knew!) you would think that Honda wouldn't have given up so soon on CNG but they did after all give it 17 years.

 

[redLEAF]

Does this mean that the Natural Gas Vehicle is basically done for? It almost seems strange, in a time of cheap and "abundant" natural gas in the US. We have infinitely more Natural Gas fueling stations (a handful) around here than Quick Chargers (0). Many of the Syracuse city buses run on CNG. Many of the local fleets, such as National Grid, run on it too.

Does anyone besides Honda actually sell a NGV passenger car in the US?

This site shows a 'bi-fuel' 2015 Chevy Impala ...

http://www.afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/search/results/?vehicle_type=light&category_id=27&fuel_id=3,37,

and lots of trucks, from pick-ups to much larger ...

http://www.afdc.energy.gov/vehicles...,135,153,35,193,165,125,115,157,37,147,199,-1