Leaf to be produced in USA

[GaslessInSeattle]

properly taxing petroleum?
They call that sanity.
what does it cost to keep an aircraft carrier or two and several air wings in the mideast?

Its the cost of freedom, and not starving/freezing to death in a dark city with a million other happy campers. I thank our men in service.

If you ask me, it's the cost of subsidizing big oil and it's the flesh and blood of our young men and women over a pack of crony capitalist lies... that said, I will never stop thanking our men and women in service, following orders, they deserve to be valued more than they are, hardly getting a heroes welcome home and even more so by not throwing them in harms way to assure the quarterly profits of billionaires in the first place.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

well put!

properly taxing petroleum?
They call that sanity.
what does it cost to keep an aircraft carrier or two and several air wings in the mideast?

Its the cost of freedom, and not starving/freezing to death in a dark city with a million other happy campers. I thank our men in service.

I am saying stop externalizing the costs. Petroleum should be taxed to cover all its externalized costs from defense to pollution.
If you are a real conservative you dont want freeloaders getting benefits that they dont pay for.

 

[TEG]

...
The best news I've heard is that the earliest Prius's ( Prii ? ) with 10 year old packs are still getting very good battery performance.
Our batteries 'should' be better than the first one's Toyota used .... we hope.

Comparing NiMH batteries to Lithium is a bit "apples to oranges".

 

[JRP3]

In Australia Talison Lithium http://www.talisonlithium.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; braags on it's investor page that it has just put a 15% price increase in
effect an all the buyers have accepted it .... not good news for the price of a battery pack.

Lithium is such a small percentage of what is actually in a "Lithium" cell it will have virtually no effect.

 

[adric22]

Comparing NiMH batteries to Lithium is a bit "apples to oranges".

Not necessarily. When talking about chemistry and behavior, maybe. But when talking about public fears about battery failures and future expense, I think the Prius is a very good comparison because people used to fearmonger over that too. So fortunately, we can use Prius batteries as a social example.

 

[TEG]

OK, but some think that the Panasonic / Toyota NiMH chemistry achieved a calendar life longevity breakthrough that may yet to be matched by Li-Ion.

Li-Ion wins on weight (better energy density) but not necessarily on all other aspects.

 

[JRP3]

LiFePO4 looks to be on track to match or exceed it, some of the other Li flavors may as well, depending on how they are managed.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

OK, but some think that the Panasonic / Toyota NiMH chemistry achieved a calendar life longevity breakthrough that may yet to be matched by Li-Ion.

Li-Ion wins on weight (better energy density) but not necessarily on all other aspects.

NiMH wins on longevity as long as a stricter depth of discharge is maintained which is not practical in a transportation environment. my Prius pack runs from 40 to 80%. great for hybrids, bad for EVs

i see these kinds of comments all the time but what many fail to realize is the Prius does not kick ass in the mileage game because of the batteries. it does it due to its HSD (hybrid synergy drive) which combines the best of the motor and engine in a way that takes fuller advantage of each system's strong points.

that is why it excels. simply put; mechanically, its one of the best designed cars in the world.

 

[JRP3]

He may have been commenting more on the NiMH pack in the RAV4EV, many of which are still going strong after 10 years and over 100K miles.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

He may have been commenting more on the NiMH pack in the RAV4EV, many of which are still going strong after 10 years and over 100K miles.

that very well could be. sure would be nice if it was technology that we could use today

 

[JRP3]

LiFePO4 seems better in every way.

 

[Herm]

Hyundai is very confident about the LG Lithium cells used in the Sonata Hybrid, they just announced a lifetime warranty on the battery.

 

[aqn]

Hyundai is very confident about the LG Lithium cells used in the Sonata Hybrid, they just announced a lifetime warranty on the battery.

I dunno man, I'll believe it when I see it in writing. Nissan has a "battery warranty" for the LEAF, too, and we know the story there.

The first handful of links I found from Google'ing of "Hyundai Sonata Hybrid lifetime warranty battery" pretty much just regurgitate the Hyundai press release, right down to grammar errors ("...if the Sonata Hybrid lithium polymer battery technology failes [sic]...")!

The press release itself does not state what the warranty covers; it just has a bunch of marketing hogwash-y stuff:

"The coverage applies to all 2012 model year Sonata Hybrid models over the life expectancy of the vehicle and thousands of miles beyond the average duration of new-car ownership. The first-of-its-kind protection ensures that if the Sonata Hybrid lithium polymer battery technology failes, Hyundai will replace the battery and cover recycling costs for the old powerplant free of charge to the owner."

Great, so just what does "failes" mean? The battery's case(s) crack? The battery retains less than 80% capacity after one year? Ten years? 50% capacity after six months?

"Hyundai tested Sonata Hybrid and its Blue Drive hybrid drivetrain for more than 300,000 miles with minimal degradation of its output or duration of operation, providing Sonata Hybrid owners with confidence that their investment will continue to pay dividends well into the future."

That's great, but about that warranty... So far, that "warranty" is not worth quite the pixels it's printed with.

Believe me, I would love it if Hyundai spells out the details, because then Nissan, Ford, et al. will have to offer something equivalent. It'd be too late for current LEAF owners, but it would mitigate one of the bigger issues with BEVs in the mind of potential adopters, battery life.