LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

[evnow]

First pic I've seen.

http://pushevs.com/2017/08/27/next-month-renault-nissan-mitsubishi-will-unveil-ev-platform/

Rendering by auto-moto.

 

[LeftieBiker]

That's an artist's rendering, not a photo.

 

[rdhauser]

Doh!

You're both right, missed that.

 

[LeftieBiker]

It's probably very close, though. I'd like to see one in "scarlet."

 

[ElectricEddy]

I am still keeping my hopes up that 60 KwH will be available as an option.
It may be expensive as compared to a 2020 production model but I do need that extra range.
Let me deal with the lack of infrastructure, thank you.

 

[OrientExpress]

I am still keeping my hopes up that 60 KwH will be available as an option.
It may be expensive as compared to a 2020 production model but I do need that extra range.
Let me deal with the lack of infrastructure, thank you.

There is a good possibility of this.

 

[geefish]

I still think Nissan is holding something back for the reveal next week.
Something we haven't even suspected let alone guessed.
You must have some sort of wow factor at these presentations that hasn't been presented in leaks or tweets or drip feeds.
Wouldn't it be great if there was a larger battery option and it was BIGGER then 60 kw? 70 or more?
I cant see it happening though...

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

I still think Nissan is holding something back for the reveal next week.
Something we haven't even suspected let alone guessed.
You must have some sort of wow factor at these presentations that hasn't been presented in leaks or tweets or drip feeds.
Wouldn't it be great if there was a larger battery option and it was BIGGER then 60 kw? 70 or more?
I cant see it happening though...

AWD comes standard :mrgreen:

 

[Nubo]

I still think Nissan is holding something back for the reveal next week.
Something we haven't even suspected let alone guessed.
You must have some sort of wow factor at these presentations that hasn't been presented in leaks or tweets or drip feeds.
Wouldn't it be great if there was a larger battery option and it was BIGGER then 60 kw? 70 or more?
I cant see it happening though...

AWD comes standard :mrgreen:

Partnership with Tesla on SuperCharging standard?

 

[jlv]

Partnership with Tesla on SuperCharging standard?

That would be game changing.

 

[internalaudit]

I am still keeping my hopes up that 60 KwH will be available as an option.
It may be expensive as compared to a 2020 production model but I do need that extra range.
Let me deal with the lack of infrastructure, thank you.

Would love that. It could lead to me cancelling my Tesla Model 3 reservation. If Nissan is able to "un"convince a few hundred or thousands of Model 3 reservation holders, at least it may be able to sell the LR Leaf to them. After all, the Bolt seems to be a compliance car and produced in very few numbers and not made easily available in Canada.

Once I decide on a BEV, I'm not getting rid of it until ownership gets too costly and that's probably at least a decade from when I purchase it. I don't think my household needs two BEVs at the moment so first one to offer a compelling longer range BEV at the most decent price range gets my money.

With PUP and the Long Range 301 mile driving range, I'm already looking at $49k USD for the Model 3. I would love AWD too but can forego that in a non-Tesla BEV.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Partnership with Tesla on SuperCharging standard?

That would be game changing.

LEAF 2 would need battery cooling to deal with 100+ kW Supercharging. Anyone really think that battery temperature management is coming on LEAF 2? My impression is that Nissan is going to stick tight with no temperature management in the hope that future battery chemistries would be more resistant to heat degradation. Would be interesting if they did use battery temperature management though.

 

[Valdemar]

Partnership with Tesla on SuperCharging standard?

That would be game changing.

LEAF 2 would need battery cooling to deal with 100+ kW Supercharging. Anyone really think that battery temperature management is coming on LEAF 2? My impression is that Nissan is going to stick tight with no temperature management in the hope that future battery chemistries would be more resistant to heat degradation. Would be interesting if they did use battery temperature management though.

The on-board battery computer is in control of the charge rate. There can be a 1MWt charger but the car will only take 50kW or as much as it needs to maintain batter safety.

 

[Nubo]

Partnership with Tesla on SuperCharging standard?

That would be game changing.

LEAF 2 would need battery cooling to deal with 100+ kW Supercharging.

Maybe not. Heat generation is mostly encountered near the upper range of SOC, and is also proportional to the charge rate as a function of pack size. Tapering might have to start earlier, but the bulk charging might not be as affected. For a 60kWH pack, 100kW is not even a 2C charge rate. Lower than a 24kWH leaf on ChaDeMo.

 

[BrockWI]

I see the E-NV200 (Leaf van) had an "auto" or "on" for pack cooling. It sounded like it was just a fan, but heck a fan is better than nothing.

I agree though, charging a 40kwh pack (if that is what it is) will generate less than half the heat of charging a 24kwh pack assuming the same charge rates. The same thing applies to the load side, I am not suggesting either method, just stating a larger pack will help reducing heating.

 

[evnow]

I am still keeping my hopes up that 60 KwH will be available as an option.
It may be expensive as compared to a 2020 production model but I do need that extra range.
Let me deal with the lack of infrastructure, thank you.

There is a good possibility of this.

I'm sure they will have a 60 kWh option. The question is - when ? :lol:

 

[jlv]

Partnership with Tesla on SuperCharging standard?

That would be game changing.

LEAF 2 would need battery cooling to deal with 100+ kW Supercharging. Anyone really think that battery temperature management is coming on LEAF 2? My impression is that Nissan is going to stick tight with no temperature management in the hope that future battery chemistries would be more resistant to heat degradation. Would be interesting if they did use battery temperature management though.

The LEAF 2 wouldn't get 100kW SC.

Tesla already varies SC speed based upon battery pack size. An S75 tops out at 99kW whereas anything larger goes to 120kW. As I (vaguely) understand it, it has to do with the organization of the cells in the pack; the smaller packs can take less serial charge. This will be the big surprise to people buying the 3 with the smaller battery: it will charge slower at the SC.

So a theoretical SC-enabled LEAF 2 with a 48kWh pack would be even more constrained for charging speed. However, being connected to the extensive SC network would still bring huge value to the owners of the car.

 

[OrientExpress]

being connected to the extensive SC network would still bring huge value to the owners of the (LEAF)car.

Not necessarily. If something like this were to happen, it would not be free but would come at a price to the user similar to that of an EVgo customer, plus a start-up fee, etc. These kinds of cross-platform arrangements rarely gain the traction needed have a viable business model.

I'm not sure that the typical LEAF owner would find such an arrangement useful or economically attractive.

 

[webb14leafs]

being connected to the extensive SC network would still bring huge value to the owners of the (LEAF)car.

Not necessarily. If something like this were to happen, it would not be free but would come at a price to the user similar to that of an EVgo customer, plus a start-up fee, etc. These kinds of cross-platform arrangements rarely gain the traction needed have a viable business model.

I'm not sure that the typical LEAF owner would find such an arrangement useful or economically attractive.

I imagine the typical Leaf Owner doesn't use quick chargers all that often. I would love to have the option to use a supercharger when I need it, regardless of the price. I only need it every couple of months.

 

[LEAFguy]

Rear of cars are not normally crush zones... the front is.

The concept is that a front of a car will hit the rear of another. That other car has a crush zone. But you won't be driving 80mph in reverse.

The Tesla Model S has kids in the rear. The RAV4 had an optional third row seating that went in the rear.

All modern cars are designed with front and rear crumple zones. Today's basic vehicle construction consists of a passenger zone, a front crumple zone which generally incorporates the engine (or electric motor) and suspension, and a rear crumple zone which generally incorporates the cargo area and rear suspension.

You are correct that the RAV4 had an optional third row seat (they no longer do), as does the Model S. Even Nissan has an optional third row seat in the current Rogue. Anybody that places their children (none of these seats are really adult sized) in these seats, are placing their children in the crumple zone. In the case of the RAV4 and the Rogue, those rear seat passengers' heads are within inches of the back glass. In the case of the Model S, their feet are near the rear bumper and their heads are within inches of the back glass. While you are correct that most people won't be driving 80 miles per hour in reverse, there is nothing to say that the guy behind you won't run into you at 80 miles per hour. While not the same thing because his car will absorb some of the energy, these types of accidents happen frequently and are still quite destructive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-BfFq7Qa7w Here is an NHTSA rear crash test video at 50 miles per hour into the rear of a 2013-18 RAV4 with a seventy percent overlap. The interesting bit starts just after the :45 second point.

Just to be clear, the crumple zone is designed to protect the occupant of the vehicle it is a part of. It is not designed to protect the occupants in the other vehicle although it will mitigate some of the impact energy.

I will not let anyone that I know ride in the third row of any of these vehicles. If you truly need third row capacity, a large SUV or minivan with an adequate crumple zone designed behind the third row seat is the only safe way to go.

Regarding the original point of this topic, while there may actually be room to place some battery capacity in this area, all current EVs place the battery case between the the front and rear wheels. This is for crash protection as well as weight distribution. I don't see LEAF 2.0 having any of the battery case behind the rear wheels so I don't really know where they will find the room for a bigger (60 kWh) battery. Unless they've got some seriously improved battery chemistry and packaging that they will roll out and fit into a case that will attach to the original location. Then again, I could be wrong about this being the same chassis as the current LEAF. We will all find out next week.