LEAF 2 : What we know so far (2018 or later?)

[OrientExpress]

Historically when Nissan has had a transition to a new version of a vehicle, the older generation of the car was kept in the mix for at least a year and given the "[vehicle_name] Select" brand. I tend to believe this is what Nissan will do with the Gen 1 LEAF, especially if the production ramp of the new version is slow.

 

[powersurge]

I knew it! We were talking about this a few years ago... Nissan has no incentive to make the G2 Leaf until other newer, better cars are being sold by other companies.. They have to make their investment in their design, tooling, and replacement parts get the most mileage possible. I would do the same.

 

[Foschas]

Price war on the way.

http://dailysunknoxville.com/2018-nissan-leaf-wants-to-blow-pricing-to-bits/920017874

 

[edatoakrun]

Price war on the way.

http://dailysunknoxville.com/2018-nissan-leaf-wants-to-blow-pricing-to-bits/920017874

Recycle of an old story from Nikkei:

Nissan eyes mass-producing $17,000 electric car
Big savings seen by sharing platform with Renault, Mitsubishi Motors

December 18, 2016 2:15 am JST
TOKYO -- Nissan Motor will share a common electric vehicle platform with its partners Renault and Mitsubishi Motors, aiming to lower prices by as much as 20%, sources said.

The automakers' common electric vehicle strategy comes as Germany's Volkswagen, Japan's Toyota Motor and other automakers are refocusing their efforts on electric vehicles to combat stricter environmental regulations being introduced around the world.

By using a common platform, Nissan hopes to come out with a plug-in priced at about 2 million yen ($17,000), around 20% lower than today's starting price...

http://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Nissan-eyes-mass-producing-17-000-electric-car?page=1

Which itself largely restated another report posted earlier on this thread:

Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:21 pm

First news reports on the LEAF Gen 3, coming in 2020 or later?

I hope that the Leaf face lift planned in 2018. is more than just a nose job (Tesla S) and actually is a significant improvement , and will be launched in the 2018 MY, and far earlier than January 2018.

Renault and Nissan will use common platform for EVs

PARIS -- Renault and Nissan will build the next Zoe and Leaf electric cars on a new common platform.

The cars will have different exterior styling but will share underpinnings and electric motors, said Arnaud Deboeuf, senior vice president of Renault-Nissan BV, the alliance's strategic management unit...

He also declined to give a timescale for the launch of the new Leaf and Zoe, but said it will happen after a Leaf facelift planned in 2018.

French media reports said the Zoe will be the first Renault-Nissan alliance model to use the new EV architecture, but not before 2020.

Renault and Nissan might continue to use different battery cells but no decision has been taken, Deboeuf told reporters at a media event in Paris. The Leaf uses in-house, comparatively low-density LMO lithium chemistry. Renault buys cells from LG Chem. Nissan has not decided whether to continue to produce its own cells or buy them...

http://www.autonews.com/article/20161213/COPY01/312139967/renault-and-nissan-will-use-common-platform-for-evs

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=17820&start=450

 

[Dooglas]

Price war on the way.

Actually, that could be a very smart move on Nissan's part. They really have two choices in pursuing future EV market share. The first is to join the technology war in an attempt to produce the newest and most innovative - allowing cost to head upwards as it has with GM, BMW, and Tesla. Or they can try to produce a serviceable and reliable EV at a substantially lower cost. They are well positioned to do the latter.

 

[desiv]

Or they can try to produce a serviceable and reliable EV at a substantially lower cost. They are well positioned to do the latter.

The thing about that is the definition of serviceable..
I wonder if they will swap battery for cost...

In order to come out with a cheaper EV, will they price a 60KwH car similar to the Bolt, but have a 40KwH model that is less expensive, hoping to find the sweet spot with consumer acceptance and least amount of battery possible for the price?

I'd hope that they come out with a 60 for less than the Bolt, and possibly a 40 even cheaper... But we'll see,..

desiv

 

[webeleafowners]

Or they can try to produce a serviceable and reliable EV at a substantially lower cost. They are well positioned to do the latter.

The thing about that is the definition of serviceable..
I wonder if they will swap battery for cost...

In order to come out with a cheaper EV, will they price a 60KwH car similar to the Bolt, but have a 40KwH model that is less expensive, hoping to find the sweet spot with consumer acceptance and least amount of battery possible for the price?

I'd hope that they come out with a 60 for less than the Bolt, and possibly a 40 even cheaper... But we'll see,..

desiv

Yah. We would be a candidate for the 40Kwh battery. Any more than 200KM is a waste for us and our 30 KWH Leaf pretty much does that.

 

[Dooglas]

In order to come out with a cheaper EV, will they price a 60KwH car similar to the Bolt, but have a 40KwH model that is less expensive, hoping to find the sweet spot with consumer acceptance and least amount of battery possible for the price?

So far, the numbers say that the Bolt is not selling all that well. That suggests that a 60 kwh battery pack isn't the sole secret to success. Nissan recently sold me a 30 kwh vehicle for $16,000 and I was happy to buy it at that price. Perhaps others are also interested in a 30-40kwh EV in the $15-20,000 price range.

 

[OrientExpress]

For most, having a range of about 120 miles for under $20K is the real sweet spot.

 

[rmay635703]

In order to come out with a cheaper EV, will they price a 60KwH car similar to the Bolt, but have a 40KwH model that is less expensive, hoping to find the sweet spot with consumer acceptance and least amount of battery possible for the price?

So far, the numbers say that the Bolt is not selling all that well. That suggests that a 60 kwh battery pack isn't the sole secret to success. Nissan recently sold me a 30 kwh vehicle for $16,000 and I was happy to buy it at that price. Perhaps others are also interested in a 30-40kwh EV in the $15-20,000 price range.

The bolt is only in a few states during low gas prices and during a period where people question the continuation of the federal rebate.

That said no EV is selling more than "fringe" amounts still well under 1%.

Volt is selling comparatively well however, odd how that works.

 

[LeftieBiker]

They still have 2016 Volts available, so unless they made a huge number they aren't selling well except now, on clearance. And why would the possible end of the subsidy make people delay buying a Bolt?

 

[GetOffYourGas]

They still have 2016 Volts available, so unless they made a huge number they aren't selling well except now, on clearance. And why would the possible end of the subsidy make people delay buying a Bolt?

It is not out of the question (nor unprecedented) that the subsidies could be revoked retroactively back to January 1st. So that means that anyone buying a Bolt now is taking a risk that they won't actually get the $7500 credit next year.

 

[TonyWilliams]

CARB-ZEV credits per vehicle:

Starting Model Year 2018 (enacted 2016):

Range per UDDS test protocol:

Actual credit value is 1% of UDDS range plus 1/2 credit
Example – 249 miles UDDS * 1% = 2.49 + 0.5 = 2.99
This vehicle earns 2 credits
No fast fueling credit

350 miles range —- Credit per vehicle: 4 (hydrogen cars, Tesla 100D, Lucid Aire)
250 miles range —- Credit per vehicle: 3 (Bolt EV, LEAF v2.0 w/60kWh battery, Tesla 3)
150 miles range —- Credit per vehicle: 2 (any EV with over 110 mile EPA range)
50 miles range —-– Credit per vehicle: 1 (current LEAF, Fiat 500e)

 

[LeftieBiker]

It is not out of the question (nor unprecedented) that the subsidies could be revoked retroactively back to January 1st. So that means that anyone buying a Bolt now is taking a risk that they won't actually get the $7500 credit next year.

It's not impossible, but it's unlikely. And if you lease it isn't your problem anymore. Of course, GM is keeping most of the tax credit anyway...

 

[mxp]

Yep, +1

For most, having a range of about 120 miles for under $20K is the real sweet spot.

 

[user 10599]

It's not impossible, but it's unlikely. And if you lease it isn't your problem anymore.

Exactly. It is possible but very unlikely. IIRC, yhe general convention of tax changes is that the earliest retro date is the date the bill is first introduced. Even as sleazy as Washington is, they know it is a bad move to change the rules negatively after people have executed their transactions following the rules as written at the time of the transaction. However, once the bill is introduced, they do sometimes assume the public was on notice and therefore proceeded at their own risk.

 

[DanCar]

They still have 2016 Volts available, so unless they made a huge number they aren't selling well except now, on clearance. And why would the possible end of the subsidy make people delay buying a Bolt?

It is not out of the question (nor unprecedented) that the subsidies could be revoked retroactively back to January 1st. So that means that anyone buying a Bolt now is taking a risk that they won't actually get the $7500 credit next year.

Where is the precedent? At the federal level it is unprecedented. I would also say that precedent dictates that these two options are more likely:
1. Tax credit gets extended beyond current 200K vehicle limit.
2. Tax credit increases for larger range cars. The rich Republicans want their tax credits.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

CARB-ZEV credits per vehicle:

Starting Model Year 2018 (enacted 2016):

Range per UDDS test protocol:

Actual credit value is 1% of UDDS range plus 1/2 credit
Example – 249 miles UDDS * 1% = 2.49 + 0.5 = 2.99
This vehicle earns 2 credits
No fast fueling credit

350 miles range —- Credit per vehicle: 4 (hydrogen cars, Tesla 100D, Lucid Aire)
250 miles range —- Credit per vehicle: 3 (Bolt EV, LEAF v2.0 w/60kWh battery, Tesla 3)
150 miles range —- Credit per vehicle: 2 (any EV with over 110 mile EPA range)
50 miles range —-– Credit per vehicle: 1 (current LEAF, Fiat 500e)

What do you mean by 150 miles range is any EV with over 110 mile EPA range? Is that the difference between the EPA and UDDS tests? Sounds like the 30kwh LEAF just misses an important cutoff.

 

[desiv]

For most, having a range of about 120 miles for under $20K is the real sweet spot.

Is that 120 miles now, or 120 miles in 8 years with some battery degradation?

Is that 120 miles in the winter with heat and driving at highway speeds??

Do most new EV buyers realize there can be a difference?

desiv

 

[edatoakrun]

Exciting news!

Gen 2 LEAF intro officially moved forward from soon, to very soon...

Nissan drives its vision of future motoring at 2017 Geneva Motor Show

07 Mar 2017


...Nissan Intelligent Mobility is the brand’s blueprint for the future of motoring, targeting zero emissions and zero fatalities. It was first announced exactly a year ago, at the 2016 Geneva Motor Show. Since then, significant progress has been made under all three of its pillars – Intelligent Driving, covering advances on how cars are driven; Intelligent Power, which guides developments on how they are powered; and Intelligent Integration, a wider investment strategy on the role vehicles play in society.



Under Intelligent Driving, progress to date includes a public demonstration of Seamless Autonomous Mobility (SAM). It’s a development of NASA technology which will help autonomous vehicles navigate unexpected obstacles.



Nissan’s vehicle-to-grid technology – part of Intelligent Integration – is now undergoing trials in countries including Denmark and the UK. The first units are with customers, allowing them to sell energy back to a power network.



Similarly, Nissan’s second-life battery storage technology – taking batteries from used Nissan LEAF cars – continues to make rapid progress. The first Nissan xStorage units are now in homes and offices, and also powering Amsterdam Arena, home to Ajax Football Club.



The Nissan BladeGlider prototype showcases the innovation and excitement of a high-performance Nissan EV – a key part of the Intelligent Power strategy. In February, Nissan revealed how it brought the streets of Monaco alive, with the brand’s new EV ambassador, Hollywood actress Margot Robbie, at the wheel.



And Nissan has announced that the world’s best-selling EV – the Nissan LEAF – will feature ProPILOT autonomous driving technology when the all-new second-generation model is launched very soon...

http://newsroom.nissan-europe.com/eu/en-gb/media/pressreleases/426184611/nissan-drives-its-vision-of-future-motoring-at-2017-geneva-motor-show