Is your LEAF solar-powered, or will it be at some point?

[GaslessInSeattle]

thanks for that, very helpful. yes, solar still comes at a premium here, which means for now the motivation has to come from environmental conscience or some kind of strong belief.

I was not aware that you could get all those credits and do the install yourself. If you could go into that a little more it would be appreciated.

George

If I could get around 6kW-10kW/day, just to charge the car, i would love to go solar. But with an average of 4 hours a day here in Seattle, it might have to be a pretty sizable system.

I've been planning my solar system over the last year and yes, it is sizeable because of the average sunlight hours. But not as bad as you might think, because we also have lower average temps. (As temp goes up, PV output goes down.) For my situation, My home uses 5200 kWh per year and I planned for between 3000 & 6000 kWh for the leaf. I figured I could fit a 14kW system on my roof and that it would produce 11kWh per year (9200 after winter shading). 2/3rds of that comes from the south facing panels. The North, East, and West panels produce the other 1/3rd.

My out of pocket cost will be $42k for this large system. $12k will come back in federal credits, $12k in State production credits (over 9 years), and another $8k in avoided electricity costs (over the same 9 years). I'll only get 75% back after 9 years. I could cut my shading losses from 15% to 4% if I trimmed my trees, but I don't think I want to do that. Oh, and I am fully installing this system myself.

The bottom line is it is hard to justify solar in WA based on economics.

 

[thankyouOB]

We have had solar since 2008.
Remind ur friends and the naysayers that allot of electricity and greenhouse gas goes into production and delivery of crude oil. Those supertankers burn bunker fuel and those refineries, are big electric users. And the gasoline travels in trucks to the corner station.
gasoline doesnt grow on trees.

 

[FairwoodRed]

thanks for that, very helpful. yes, solar still comes at a premium here, which means for now the motivation has to come from environmental conscience or some kind of strong belief.

I was not aware that you could get all those credits and do the install yourself. If you could go into that a little more it would be appreciated.

George

My motivation comes from a strong belief. I believe that foreign energy dependence is a bad thing. I talked that talk for a long time now. Just recently, it became realistic for me to walk the walk – how could I maintain my self-respect if I didn’t follow thru? So that’s what I am doing.
The Federal Tax credit is claimed on form 5695, line 12 (http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f5695.pdf) . If you get audited, the only proof that you will need is receipts (Home Depot, DM Solar, Enphase, wherever you buy your parts from). You probably will never have to show these receipts, but you should still hold on to them for 7 years.

The State of Washington production credit is paid to you by your local electric company once a year. They mostly get involved once the system is built and ready to be connected to the grid but you should get them to review your design early on. You will have to fill out a few forms (http://dor.wa.gov/docs/forms/misc/renewenersystcertinvcstrecincprgm.pdf and http://dor.wa.gov/Docs/forms/Misc/RenewEnerSystCustCstRecIncPmtAppl.pdf and an application for renewable energy production incentive program with the utility ) and the first one gets filed with the state. Every July after that, you will read your PV meter (second meter) and report how much you generated in the last year to the utility, who will report it to the state for you, and then wait a few months for the check to come thru. Most, if not all, incentives can be found on http://www.dsireusa.org/ . Just click on the state you are in.

That’s it. Just keep your receipts for the federal and fill out the new PV certification for the state.
There is a company in Tacoma who will help Do-It-Yourselfer’s (http://www.pacificnwsolar.com) . They prefer to do full installs because they get more money, but they also help as much or as little as you need. I’m using them because, even though I have quite a bit of electrical knowledge, I still need someone to answer unusual code questions and to give advice on the standard way things are done.

If you’re thinking about doing it yourself, I’d be willing to sit down over a cup of Hot Chocolate and talk to you about all the stuff I’ve learned in the past year, show you what I’ve done so far, and let you look at my project as I tackle each milestone. Depending on how busy I am, I could help some with system design and electrical work… maybe even some of the physical mounting. PM me with your email address and I’ll email you.

 

[LindaK]

I got some great news with my monthly statement for April, my first full month of LEAF usage. First some background:

1) My PV system has been supporting my entire electrical needs for 2 years, with a small amt to spare.
2) When I got my LEAF, I immediately signed up for PGE's special E-9 rate for EV owners that lowers the cost of night-time energy use.
3) I drove just under 1000 miles in April
4) It was a sunny month!

So here were my results....although I used more Kv than I produced, my total bull for the months was MINUS ~$4.00. Yes, the rate difference for usage vs sale back put me in the winners circle for April.

Probably won't hold true for June when the fog hits the coast, but I am expecting the same for May, so will have some "$$ in the bank" for our solar-challenged summer.

Cool!

 

[lemketron]

I got some great news with my monthly statement for April, my first full month of LEAF usage. First some background:

1) My PV system has been supporting my entire electrical needs for 2 years, with a small amt to spare.
2) When I got my LEAF, I immediately signed up for PGE's special E-9 rate for EV owners that lowers the cost of night-time energy use.
3) I drove just under 1000 miles in April
4) It was a sunny month!

So here were my results....although I used more Kv than I produced, my total bull for the months was MINUS ~$4.00. Yes, the rate difference for usage vs sale back put me in the winners circle for April.

What rate were you on before? E-1, E-6, or E-7?
My understanding was that E-9 is less friendly to PV owners than E-6.
I'm on E-1 since my original PV system (2.1 KW south-facing) wasn't large enough to cover our summer peak usage.
However, I'm now considering adding another 3KW west-facing, and most likely switching to E-6, rather than E-9.
(There's likely a better thread for this somewhere, but I was surprised to hear of someone with PV going to E-9.)

The old Tesla spreadsheets might help answer that, though the rates have since changed.

 

[fosterdavy]

Our 3.8 kW array gives more than we need for the house, since we sized it knowing we would eventually get an EV. Question is whether the excess will cover our charging needs. If the 4 mi/kWh estimate holds, then our estimated 12,000 miles/year will exceed the approximately 1500 kWh excess we produce, about half of what we'd need to be fully solar.

Fortunately, we live in Marin County, where the Marin Energy Authority offers 100% carbon-free, renewable power for $.01 per kWh more than their regular price (for 27% renewable power and rising).

Unfortunately, we live in Novato, whose city council members bought PG&E's BS that MEA wouldn't work, couldn't get started, wouldn't be able to find the renewable power, wouldn't be able to compete, etc ad nauseum, all proven false. But they pocketed the campaign "donations" and voted to prevent Novato residents from even getting the chance to opt out (or in).

This will be corrected no doubt in future, but meanwhile I guess our Leaf won't be 100% powered by renewable energy.

BTW, the Calif. state program/law under which MEA was formed is called "Community Choice Aggregation" or CCA, and is a way for cities and counties to bypass their local utilities to purchase power whereever they want. The utility still transmits, delivers and bills for it, but residents are no longer stuck with the foot-dragging on renewables that can be expected from a (primarily gas-) utility. Residents can stay with the incumbent utility if they prefer. Richmond, San Francisco, Sonoma County and others are working actively to form their own CCAs, and will presumably offer 100% green power as an option. If CCA comes to your neighborhood, support it!

 

[Boomer23]

Our 3.8 kW array gives more than we need for the house, since we sized it knowing we would eventually get an EV. Question is whether the excess will cover our charging needs. If the 4 mi/kWh estimate holds, then our estimated 12,000 miles/year will exceed the approximately 1500 kWh excess we produce, about half of what we'd need to be fully solar.

After two months of driving, I'm seeing 3 mi/kWh from the wall meter to the wheels.

When we installed our 5.16 kW DC system four years ago, we aimed to cover 80% of our 10,300 kWh/yr usage in 2005. But through successive conservation steps over the years, we only used 64% of that 2005 amount in 2010, and our household usage without LEAF charging will be even less this year. So we logged about 2,200 kWh of excess power at the end of our net metering year recently, enough to drive 6,600 solar miles per year. With Southern Cal Edison's TOU rates, we'll be driving all of our LEAF miles for no fuel cost at all.

 

[ERG4ALL]

One thing I like to point out to persons thinking that it is too expensive to install solar, is to look at the system as an investment. For example, one might say that a 10 year pay back is not good enough to install solar PV. I look at that as comparing that to going to a bank and saying I want to deposit money with you and I want you to guarantee that I will get a 10% return on that money and I want you to increase that return whenever electric rates go up.

Then people say, "Well I may not live in my house for 10 years." I look at that by saying that suppose when you buy this house it is like buying a guaranteed bond that pays you every year. Wouldn't that be worth something compared with a house that does not pay you anything per year? Plus, the longer you do live in the house, the less additional you would have to receive to ensure that you were paid back for your investment.

On top of all that you have the satisfaction of doing something for the planet.

By the way, with the LEAF, our payback is between 4 and 5 years.

 

[pjoseph]

Exactly my thinking, ER4ALL. But you elucidate it better.

Solar PV prices appear to be coming down dramatically. What price per watt are folks currently seeing? Any recent ROI calculations would be appreciated as well.

Austin Energy has a $2.50 per watt rebate (ongoing until funds run out). There is an additional $0.50 per watt rebate until Sept 30th. There has to be Federal incentives as well (unless AMT kicks in).

Our current energy rates are $.0.11 per kW (highest tier, the first 500 kW is only $0.07 per kW). But rates are scheduled to go up 13% + in early 2012.

 

[jcesare]

I don't know how the energy mix varies by time of day. I know utilities want to sell to EVs so that they can add more renewable power to the mix since a lot of wind power is generated at night when it might not otherwise be usable. But then I wonder if they also increase the proportion of both nuclear and coal in the nighttime mix since they're meeting a less variable baseline load.

I was at a function a few weeks agos and reps from SDG&E stated that the off-peak power plants are the cleanest and most efficient. The peak plants are the most costly and inefficient. During peak times they buy energy from outside of CA. (Coal fired power plants from AZ?)

As far as the OT is concerned, I'm not solar powered now but looking into it. I most likely will seriously consider it next year.

 

[GreenFoot]

I've had a 5kW solar system on my house for about six years now. Anyone who owns a Leaf should consider investing in solar. You will be saving twice. First, you're already saving on high gas prices. That savings can increase if you install a solar system. Second, the rebates and credits are getting used up, so if you want to take advantage of Uncle Sam helping you pay for the system (just like he helped you pay for your Leaf) than now is the right time to go for it. Third, if you only charge your Leaf at night and have a solar system, each hundred miles of charge will cost you approx. $1.20. If anyone needs any info on solar, costs, types of systems, etc., you can ask me at bill.greenfootforward.com

 

[GPowers]

A pool pump upgrade may be what gets me the extra that I need

We bought a variable speed pool pump last year when we install PV panels. Made a huge difference. Went from using 18kWh a day for the pool pump to only 2.5kWh. An amazing change.

 

[ElectricVehicle]

For those who don't have an option of installing their own solar panels for various reasons like cost, apartment, home ownwer's association, planning to move soon, college student, etc. you can always power your LEAF from the grid and purchase renewable energy certificates to replace the power you've used with zero emissions electricity.

LEAF + Renewable Energy Certificates = ZERO emissions.

LEAF + Solar or Wind = ZERO emissions.

Renewable Energy Certificates
US DOE Renewable Energy Certificates (RECs) Retail
Renewable Energy Certificates (RECs)

There are a number of 100% new renewable options that costs less than $0.01/kWh or in LEAF terms, that's $0.003 (3/10 of 1 cent per mile at 3 miles/kWh) or less per mile!

 

[N952JL]

Must be nice to have utility companies help pay for your PV systems. I installed a 10kW system that went online 2 July 2010. The systems consists of 48 Everygreen 210w pannels on four single axis tracking arrays. Each array has 12 pannels. I have two Sunny Boy 6kW inverters so two arrays go to inverter A and two arrays go to invert B. In the last 15 months, this system has produced almost 20 mWh yes that is mega watts. My highest single day total was last April with over 76kW produced. My highest monthly total was last May with over 1600kW deliviered to Flint electric.

Flint is not very solar friendly. They are the only electric company I am allow to deal with, and they do allow net metering. No rebates. I pay .095 per kW for what I use, and they pay me .0042 per kW for what I give to them. Everybody pays a $20.00 per month connect charge for maintenance of the grid. That's it.

Without the Leaf (which has a delivery date of Dec 2011) I run between 1000kw to 3000kw per month, depending on heater and air condition requirements on a total of 4500sq ft heated/air space.

10kW is the largest system I am allow to install. I do have a shading issue from trees not on my lot but I still manage to bring in what PVWATTS says I should for Macon GA. (I live 18 miles south of there.)

The system costed me just at 60K and the federal tax credit is 18K and the state tax credit is an addition 8K. So after tax credits the cost was 36K which will take about 18yrs for pay back. But it has a 40 yrs life and that assumes no increases in the cost of electicity.
My next goal is to upgrade the heat pump to a geotherma heat pump before the federal tax rebate expires in 2016.

 

[keydiver]

Solar PV prices appear to be coming down dramatically. What price per watt are folks currently seeing?

I just installed a 7.6kW system for ~$2.50/watt, including the electrician who did all the necessary work to meet code requirements. Check out http://www.sunelec.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; where I bought all my parts. SMA America has a great design tool you can download to configure how many panels you need and which inverter to use, and Unirac has an online calculator to provide all the windload data and parts list for the rail mounting. If your local building authority and utility allow you to install solar by owner, you should consider it.

 

[LEAFfan]

Another method for a homeowner to have PVs is to lease. The company that installed mine now has a really good lease program with a payoff of about seven years. He said the monthly fee never goes up and of course you have the option to buy if you so choose. As you can see from my sig, mine only cost me $ .91/W (bought) fully installed. Payoff will be in about 4 years. :mrgreen:

 

[lkkms2]

In the San Diego area I went to a "Reduce and Produce" Workshop at the California Center for Sustainable Energy (CCSE). They had invited Leaf Owners to this particular event. You should have seen the parking lot. Lots of Leafs.

I have read in the newspaper recently that in the San Diego area we now have 700+ Leaf Owners! Anyway during the workshop the CCSE folks mentioned that approximatey 1/3 of the Leaf Owners in San Diego County currently have Solar Systems. As Tony the Tiger would say. That's Greaaaaat!

 

[OilFreedom]

Here's a related thread with good info: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=4280" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

 

[HighDesertDriver]

We bought a variable speed pool pump last year when we install PV panels. Made a huge difference. Went from using 18kWh a day for the pool pump to only 2.5kWh. An amazing change.

That is amazing and far in excess of what the brochures for SoCal Edison suggest we would see. Did you make any other changes in the schedule? In the context of efficiency, I've been considering this same change for a couple years, but with excess annual production (for which we were not paid in the past) it would have been just an added unnecessary cost. Now, we have a Leaf where our excess production and efficiency improvements can be used, so a new pump is back on the table. Feel free to post here, or PM if you think it would clutter the thread. Thanks!

Back on subject. . . Without any other changes around the house, I've calculated that our surplus PV production will supply about half our Leaf's electrical needs. Before considering additional panels, I still have other efficiency improvements to consider (as in the preceding paragraph), TOU metering options (we're straight NEM at this time), and only 3 weeks of actual Leaf data to project from.

More generally, conversations on whether or not to install PV usually include the "What is the payback time?" question. This is a part of the decision process, but it should not be the overriding one as some people think it should be. Keep in mind that even though you may not personally see the payback while you live in the home, you do save month-by-month on electricity, all or part of the cost of the system is recovered in the sale of your home (knowledgeable real estate agent tap into resources that help fairly price that value), and in some states the system value is not included in the appraised value of the home and does not increase your property tax.

 

[GPowers]

We bought a variable speed pool pump last year when we install PV panels. Made a huge difference. Went from using 18kWh a day for the pool pump to only 2.5kWh. An amazing change.

That is amazing and far in excess of what the brochures for SoCal Edison suggest we would see. Did you make any other changes in the schedule? In the context of efficiency, I've been considering this same change for a couple years, but with excess annual production (for which we were not paid in the past) it would have been just an added unnecessary cost. Now, we have a Leaf where our excess production and efficiency improvements can be used, so a new pump is back on the table. Feel free to post here, or PM if you think it would clutter the thread. Thanks!

It takes some setup on the variable speed pool pump timer to achieve these results. I did a lot of experimenting to see what the most efficient speed the pump could be run at for different tasks.