Is anyone really aware of what Nissan has done?

[wharpiv]

Good Morning (1st time poster/1st post).

I am wondering if I might get some advice on a few "Leaf" things,

1. Am I the only one that has seen dramatic reduction in range AFTER the computer resetting? - I would say that mine is about 8-10 miles less than before. Doesn't this directly make the advertising on the range false?

2. Has anyone noticed that 2010 & 2011 Leaf Used market has now become almost non-existant/obsolete? - I just found out a couple of days ago that the new 2013 Leafs are not selling well, so the price has been cut by $7 to $8K, with a tax refund on top of that?
(Unless one has some cash and was able to put down a monster down payment but if you're like me, one who couldn't put a lot of cash toward the car, then you're possibly stuck with your car and probably will automatically be "upside down" in your car if you wanted to trade in.

I don't find that this behaviour is appropriate and as I said, I feel stuck in my car and I don't like it. Yes, I could keep my car forever and ever but what if that's not an option?

I think Nissan should correct this. I feel that they should offer a continued tax incentive every year to make up for this financial undercut or offer vouchers on toward new cars (Leafs or otherwise).

Any ideas out there? Advice? Thanks for your time and make it great days.

 

[defiancecp]

On 1, I didn't notice any range change, but I usually operate in the 80%-30% range, so I probably wouldn't have noticed. I believe I've read reports of others apparently losing range, but I think the consensus may be that it's not actually 'lost', just 'hidden' in the last bar.

On 2, Sure, I noticed that values are notably lower than other equivelantly-priced (after tax rebates) 2011 vehicles, and yes, I agree that this is likely related to recuded pricing of current models.

So what?

Did you honestly *not* expect that? The very core POINT of the $7500 rebate you got on your taxes was in order to give you incentive to purchase a car that is priced higher than competitive gas models - in order to help the industry build up electrics such that they get economies of scale *which results in price drops*. That's the POINT. I'd be quite worried if it WASN'T happening.

As for 2013 leafs not selling well, erm, that's because they're not selling yet. Your point is still valid, as 2012 sold far below expectations, so that also plays into the lowered prices - just clarifying the 2013/2012 thing.

If you're upside-down, it's likely because you did not apply your tax rebate to the car loan; otherwise, even with the lower-than-average resale values, you should be well above water with a responsible loan.

I definitely do *NOT* believe Nissan should compensate me because they reduced their pricing on later models, especially when that's what is hoped will happen to pricing.

 

[Shaka]

I definitely do *NOT* believe Nissan should compensate me because they reduced their pricing on later models, especially when that's what is hoped will happen to pricing.

Agreed. Many cars have suffered in sales over the years. I had a Land Rover Freelander that had 0% financing but when I went to sell the vehicle they had continued to offer incentives/etc and I was upside down. It was my fault, being 0% financing I ended up placing no money down. My loan was the car, plus tax/title/fees. But I never expected a hand-out...

Cars are NEVER an investment... they will lose value no matter what. And in a market for an EV, you can actually only HOPE that the price of these cars declines. It should be the goal of all manufacturers to lower the price of cars. Volkswagen reduced the price of their Jetta when the 6th generation came out, they redesigned the car, and moved manufacturing to Chattanooga, TN USA. I don't think it would be fair for people of prior versions to complain that this would hurt the resale value. That is purely the nature of the beast of cars...

 

[adric22]

I was hopeful that Nissan was going to lower the price on the 2013 models. Because i'm more interested in the electric car market taking off. And the more EVs there are on the road, the more charging stations might pop up. So lowering the price helps me in the long run as I plan to keep my 2011 Leaf for a long time.

 

[edatoakrun]

I was hopeful that Nissan was going to lower the price on the 2013 models. Because i'm more interested in the electric car market taking off. And the more EVs there are on the road, the more charging stations might pop up. So lowering the price helps me in the long run as I plan to keep my 2011 Leaf for a long time.

The increased sales due to the lower price of 2013s will also:

Lower prices for all LEAF parts, especially the batteries, by leading to cost reductions from higher production levels.

Increase the incentive for aftermarket support for all LEAFs, such as lower-cost aftermarket battery suppliers/rebuilders.

Incentivize the more rapid development of the aftermarket for partially depleted LEAF battery packs for re-purposing, increasing the trade in value of our battery packs, when we decide to replaced them.

All of these developments will reduce the total cost of ownership for our LEAFs, raising the resale values over the long-term.

 

[EdmondLeaf]

The increased sales due to the lower price of 2013s will also:

I just checked, MSRP for my 2011 SL was $33,720 and 2013 SL is $34,840 so I am not sure if there is lowered price, maybe just lower priced S model. It is very common for car manufacturers to add new things to the car and slightly increase price and this sure apply to 13 SL model.

Nissan is not charitable organization, they need to make money, and same apply to Leaf. Not sure if they making money on Leaf now, but like with every other product if there is no money to be made there is no reason to continue production. Especially with new technology/product, prices are going down fast, and one just have to accept that.

 

[Nubo]

I definitely do *NOT* believe Nissan should compensate me because they reduced their pricing on later models, especially when that's what is hoped will happen to pricing.

Agreed. I never can understand that way of thinking. You buy something when you consider the product to be worth the price. A deal is a deal.

When the iPhone first came out I bought one of the first ones for my Wife, because I knew she'd love it. It was early-adopter pricy but we could afford it. Not too long after they dropped the price, and early purchasers were up in arms. I simply could not understand that sense of entitlement. Now that DVD players are selling for $60 maybe I should sue for a $300 refund from our 1990's unit. :roll:

 

[mwalsh]

1. Am I the only one that has seen dramatic reduction in range AFTER the computer resetting? - I would say that mine is about 8-10 miles less than before.

You mean after the P1273 update? YES! MINE HAS DONE EXACTLY THE SAME THING! The same amount of range loss too - 8-10 miles estimated (corroborated by a reduction of available Gids).

Thank you SO MUCH for posting...I was thinking it was just me! Open a case with Nissan. Do it now!

 

[TonyWilliams]

1. Am I the only one that has seen dramatic reduction in range AFTER the computer resetting? - I would say that mine is about 8-10 miles less than before.

You mean after the P1273 update? YES! MINE HAS DONE EXACTLY THE SAME THING! The same amount of range loss too - 8-10 miles estimated (corroborated by a reduction of available Gids).

Thank you SO MUCH for posting...I was thinking it was just me! Open a case with Nissan. Do it now!

What exactly were the 100% charge Gids before and after the update?

 

[EdmondLeaf]

about 250 before and about 230 now
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11303&hilit=P1273&view=viewpoll

 

[edatoakrun]

The increased sales due to the lower price of 2013s will also:

I just checked, MSRP for my 2011 SL was $33,720 and 2013 SL is $34,840 so I am not sure if there is lowered price, maybe just lower priced S model. It is very common for car manufacturers to add new things to the car and slightly increase price and this sure apply to 13 SL model...

Facts is, the 2013 LEAF price has been lowered significantly from 2012 and even from the much lower 2011 list price, for any comparatively equipped model LEAF.

My list price was the same as yours, but I would probably have chosen to pay (if the options had been available) twice the $1,120 price "increase" you site, just for the 2013 SL 6.6 kW charger and heat pump, not to mention the many other improvements the 2013 SL has over the 2011 SL.

And BTW, as my own 2011 purchase price after discount and incentives was ~$21,000, I am very pleased as to my own LEAF's current market value, having depreciated (by my estimate) only between 10% and 15% from my initial purchase, after ~20 months and ~15,000 miles.

 

[mwalsh]

about 250 before and about 230 now
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=11303&hilit=P1273&view=viewpoll

Yes. Thanks for posting a link to the thread...I was just about to do that myself.

A better place to look is at my Google Drive spreadsheet. You can see a range of between, say, 240-255 Gids before the software and 222-233 after (though I'm REALLY having to cajole and/or baby the pack to get it to move higher):

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnSYHt_rpvYydGlLZ3dOZ1dfTlFRS2JsTlo1V1ptVHc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Volusiano]

The increased sales due to the lower price of 2013s will also:

I just checked, MSRP for my 2011 SL was $33,720 and 2013 SL is $34,840 so I am not sure if there is lowered price, maybe just lower priced S model. It is very common for car manufacturers to add new things to the car and slightly increase price and this sure apply to 13 SL model.

This is a very good point here. After I bought my 2011 SL, the 2012 SL price went up and I was glad that I "got in" early.

The only thing I see lower is the introduction of the S model.

Granted, the 6.6kw charger in the 2013 charger in the 2013 SV and SL sure makes them look a lot more attractive, however.

To be a little off topic, I heard that the production cost difference for Nissan between the 6.6kw charger in the 2013 SV and SL and the 3.6kw charger in the S is only $20. I don't know how reliable this source is. Can anyone confirm?

But if true, it's obvious that Nissan's choice to still put in only a 3.6kw charger on the S despite a production saving of $20 only is a game they play to make a clear distinction between the economy S and the more luxurious SV and SL. If they had decided to put the 6.6kw charger in the S because they have the consumer's interest at heart (since it's only $20 more), it would have blurred the line too much and the S would have looked MUCH more attractive to people.

 

[TomT]

They aren't even available for sale yet so I don't know how they COULD be selling well!

I just found out a couple of days ago that the new 2013 Leafs are not selling well.

 

[TomT]

Car manufacturers play this marketing game all the time. I'm not surprised to see Nissan playing it with the Leaf as well.

But if true, it's obvious that Nissan's choice to still put in only a 3.6kw charger on the S despite a production saving of $20 only is a game they play to make a clear distinction between the economy S and the more luxurious SV and SL. If they had decided to put the 6.6kw charger in the S because they have the consumer's interest at heart (since it's only $20 more), it would have blurred the line too much and the S would have looked MUCH more attractive to people.

 

[dlich18]

That's the definition of "early adopter". You often choose to pay more to be one of the first. And, in this case, to support the EV movement.
It is also for exactly this reason that I leased, rather than purchased. I figured (apparently correctly) that as with all new technology, the price would come down and the features would go up. Everyone had that choice if they wanted to take the market risk out of the equation.
My only regret is that I purchased extra miles in my lease, which I will not end up using. I changed jobs to a closer location. But - so it goes!

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

Actually, trading in could be argued as one of the best ways to leverage value because you are trading like for like, where some of the depreciation in the older model is offset by the lower price of the 2013 and the zero miles. the 2013 has more intrinsic value due to the improved options and the fact that it's newer... not bad if you knew you were going to keep the car for a long time. we are contemplating this now. we are in a bit of a conundrum as to whether to sell the Highlander or the Leaf, when the Tesla arrives next month. it would be very nice to be completely solar electric for our driving, a dream I've had all my life and never really imagined was so within reach. If we keep the Leaf we will consider swapping up one last time to the 2013 as waiting through another summer may kill the trade in value of our 2012.

the heat pump, the new climate control configuration, the new wheel option, the leather seats, the sound upgrade and the new gray color are attractive features to me and I live in a climate where the lack of TMS is less of an issue in terms of battery longevity... though I'd pay extra for TMS and extra for added range, though that puts you in base Tesla S territory, a big jump in class of vehicle.

what to do now, time will tell, though I have to admit the depreciation of the Leaf has us more anxious about the decision... it's depreciating so much so fast though, that it's becoming worth more to us than the cash we can get for it, unless we trade up, presuming we can get a decent trade in value.

 

[davewill]

Another reason to lease when dealing with new tech like this. If the value really plummets, you just turn it in.

 

[edatoakrun]

...the depreciation of the Leaf has us more anxious about the decision...

You are "anxious" over the depreciation of your BEV for which you paid $20-something k (net incentives) and you are now planning to buy a BEV with a $70-something K (net incentives) price?

 

[evnow]

I just found out a couple of days ago that the new 2013 Leafs are not selling well, so the price has been cut by $7 to $8K, with a tax refund on top of that?

So, how exactly did you "find out" that 2013 wasn't selling well ?

To tell you the thruth, they aren't selling at all. They have sold zero so far !