ICEless in Seattle : Official Pacific NorthWest thread

[highcountryrider]

The usual. "How far does it go?' "How long does it take to recharge?" "How much did
it cost?" "How much is the 'charger'?"

He seemed more than a little interested. But dummy me never thought to direct him
to this site.

Approaching Burien on the fwy today, a man in a Prius waved me to pull over.
I answered his questions in the Ivar's parking lot.

What were his questions?

 

[saywatt]

Yes this an issue had it happen a few weeks ago.

Also along these lines I was at Best Buy corporate headquarters the winter before last and was talking with the cabbie about seeing deicer trucks running around and spraying all the intersection lights. He said Minneapolis installed all new street and intersection lights the summer before that are LED based to save a lot of money but found out they were having to spend that savings on keeping the lights ice free during the winter.

So much for eco-friendly technology! :lol:

 

[rainnw]

At the Bay Area meeting with the Leaf Engineers, the head engineer took some time to talk about the troubles with providing a precise State Of Charge reading. He shared how when the car is operating, they can't use cell voltage to estimate SOC because the load of the car causes the cell voltage to vary wildly while under load.

He went so far as to say that the only time they could get an accurate State Of Charge reading is when the car is turned on or turned off. He said anything in between is just guesses.

I have to deal with this crap all the time with some circuit designs that use Li+ batteries (frankly, it goes for any battery technology). Different lithium chemistries have different specific characteristics, each OEM has unique ways of implementing the chemistry, and from cell to cell variations occur (mainly capacity anomalies). We do extensive testing, but most pass.

Batteries have different levels of efficiency depending on the amount of power drawed (lower draws result in more actual capacity).

depending on internal resistance, voltage sag is more substantial with high loads. This gives the false impression that SOC is lower than it really is.

Batteries tend to stabilize after a "resting period"

Batteries can provide higher than expected voltage with lower SOC's for brief periods of time when not used for a while

Temperature can cause strange, non-linear effects

We have extensive logging on all of our deployed battery units (some for over a year), and its entertaining to say to least.

 

[tomsax]

We have two other electric vehicles: a Tesla Roadster and a 2002 Toyota RAV4-EV. Both cars have SOC meters that show precision a little better than 1%, both of which are extremely useful despite all of the problems that make it impossible to be exactly right.

If the LEAF can show us SOC * fudge factor = GOM, then it can show us the raw SOC. It's just stupid they don't offer this at least as an option.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

what we need is a dual meter. SOC AND estimated range.

better yet, plug it into NAV and use NAV history to estimate the distance!~!

ok, maybe that last part is a bit of a dream but dreams is what allows a good idea to become a great idea.

Nissan; Great Start, we just need to make a few adjustments and continue to innovate

 

[saywatt]

I wonder if a more accurate SOC reading would matter much to us the NW. Our hilly terrain can really mess up ones range (not to mention the weather). And connecting to NAV won't work as it can only see in 2D. I've seen this whan planning a rout with CarWings - it picks the best rout only in 2D not knowing that a big "mountain" is in the way!

I live on top of a fairly steep hill and when I travel into Seattle, they too have really steep hills. I can gain 30 miles range going down my hill (most of which is the range algorithm) and know from experience I will lose 15 - 20 on the return up that hill ( I attribute the later to the padding in the algorithm as the battery nears empty - which is why it seems I've never run out of juice going up my hill). My point is that hills mess up all chances for range accuracy here in the NW.

What we need are L3 chargers!! :x

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I wonder if a more accurate SOC reading would matter much to us the NW. Our hilly terrain can really mess up ones range (not to mention the weather). And connecting to NAV won't work as it can only see in 2D. I've seen this whan planning a rout with CarWings - it picks the best rout only in 2D not knowing that a big "mountain" is in the way!

I live on top of a fairly steep hill and when I travel into Seattle, they too have really steep hills. I can gain 30 miles range going down my hill (most of which is the range algorithm) and know from experience I will lose 15 - 20 on the return up that hill ( I attribute the later to the padding in the algorithm as the battery nears empty - which is why it seems I've never run out of juice going up my hill). My point is that hills mess up all chances for range accuracy here in the NW.

What we need are L3 chargers!! :x

i see your point BUT... if we had an accurate usage reading we could create our own data base like Tom and Cathy have. so you can know that in previous journeys over a certain route during certain conditions you used X SOC.

granted, it would be better if the NAV could store previous routes and energy usage results and use that to calculate your "probability of success" and that is what we WILL see in the 2020 Leaf. the technology is there, we only really need to implement it. its not rocket science but it does require someone to maintain a data base online somewhere and that is where in car NAV is going to morph to.

the technology has become nearly a part of life so its moving from the "cool" or "luxury" into the expected standard part of Life and it will fail if it does not continue to innovate. look at cellphones. they were in the same place 10 years ago but now they are so much more than that and just like our cellphones, our cars will become just another cog into the connectivity of our lives.

 

[saywatt]

Agreed! And I see no reason NAV can't have "depth perception" - and soon! Look at TOPO maps, It wasn't surveyors walking around with altimeters that drew in all those lines.

Until which time all available technology is incorporated into the Leaf, we will just have to consider it like the biplane - flying by the seat of our pants with nothing more than a ball in a liquid-filled tube and a plumb bob!

I wonder if a more accurate SOC reading would matter much to us the NW. Our hilly terrain can really mess up ones range (not to mention the weather). And connecting to NAV won't work as it can only see in 2D. I've seen this whan planning a rout with CarWings - it picks the best rout only in 2D not knowing that a big "mountain" is in the way!

I live on top of a fairly steep hill and when I travel into Seattle, they too have really steep hills. I can gain 30 miles range going down my hill (most of which is the range algorithm) and know from experience I will lose 15 - 20 on the return up that hill ( I attribute the later to the padding in the algorithm as the battery nears empty - which is why it seems I've never run out of juice going up my hill). My point is that hills mess up all chances for range accuracy here in the NW.

What we need are L3 chargers!! :x

i see your point BUT... if we had an accurate usage reading we could create our own data base like Tom and Cathy have. so you can know that in previous journeys over a certain route during certain conditions you used X SOC.

granted, it would be better if the NAV could store previous routes and energy usage results and use that to calculate your "probability of success" and that is what we WILL see in the 2020 Leaf. the technology is there, we only really need to implement it. its not rocket science but it does require someone to maintain a data base online somewhere and that is where in car NAV is going to morph to.

the technology has become nearly a part of life so its moving from the "cool" or "luxury" into the expected standard part of Life and it will fail if it does not continue to innovate. look at cellphones. they were in the same place 10 years ago but now they are so much more than that and just like our cellphones, our cars will become just another cog into the connectivity of our lives.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

We the consumer drive the change. Tesla is currently high end and waaay out of me reach but if they continue to do a better job and do provide the planned affordable family car in 5 years then Nissan has to address that and being better at letting the neophyte EV'er know where they can go safely is a big issue to address.

i can see the point of the GOM, but i want more info... a LOT more

 

[highcountryrider]

<snip>Until which time all available technology is incorporated into the Leaf, we will just have to consider it like the biplane - flying by the seat of our pants with nothing more than a ball in a liquid-filled tube and a plumb bob! <snip>

And the tow truck....

 

[saywatt]

Are there any Leaf owners out there that can share their experience of running their car through a Brown Bear automatic car wash? Specifically, any bent front license plate issues or what does the multi-tenticled monster do to the NAV antenna, wipers, etc.

I've been using the manual wand followed by drying with microfiber towels but the cold is getting to me. . . . . . . not that a northwesterner should be washing their car this time of year anyway!

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

I've been through brown bear many times in the leaf. neutral is found by pushing the shifter to the left until you see it go to N. I've not had any issues... I used to do it by hand but it's so darn easy and fast to do brown bear.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I've been through brown bear many times in the leaf. neutral is found by pushing the shifter to the left until you see it go to N. I've not had any issues... I used to do it by hand but it's so darn easy and fast to do brown bear.

neutral is also found by shifting to any gear without your foot on the brake

 

[JohnnySebring]

The Brown Bear wash on 15th NW works very well, however it can bend the license plate. After this happened to me, I put a slight bend in the plate to make it slightly convex in hopes the carwash wouldn't catch the edges but after a few washes it bent again. I finally put a plate protector on with my vanity plates and no problem since.

The bummer is I can not get a discount for filling up with gas! The good part is that a car wash is very cheap compared to filling up! Since this car often gets attention, I think its important to keep it clean and ready to show so I'm washing at least once a week.

When my friends or family spot Leafs, I often hear "it was filthy dirty, so I knew it wasn't you"

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

The bummer is I can not get a discount for filling up with gas!

wow!! not too demanding are we??

When my friends or family spot Leafs, I often hear "it was filthy dirty, so I knew it wasn't you"

ya, mine attracts dirt as well, especially on the back hatch just like my Prius does. i am seriously thinking of getting mud flaps as i just washed the car on Tues and the back panel behind the wheels were dirty again the very next day!!

 

[JohnnySebring]

The bummer is I can not get a discount for filling up with gas!

wow!! not too demanding are we??

When my friends or family spot Leafs, I often hear "it was filthy dirty, so I knew it wasn't you"

ya, mine attracts dirt as well, especially on the back hatch just like my Prius does. i am seriously thinking of getting mud flaps as i just washed the car on Tues and the back panel behind the wheels were dirty again the very next day!!

What? you drive around here without mud flaps! I have the Leaf option flaps and they seem to help.

Maybe if Brown Bear put in L3 I could get a fill up discount? Line one up with the vacuums with a quarter slot.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

The bummer is I can not get a discount for filling up with gas!

wow!! not too demanding are we??

When my friends or family spot Leafs, I often hear "it was filthy dirty, so I knew it wasn't you"

ya, mine attracts dirt as well, especially on the back hatch just like my Prius does. i am seriously thinking of getting mud flaps as i just washed the car on Tues and the back panel behind the wheels were dirty again the very next day!!

What? you drive around here without mud flaps! I have the Leaf option flaps and they seem to help.

Maybe if Brown Bear put in L3 I could get a fill up discount? Line one up with the vacuums with a quarter slot.

hmm not getting the flaps was a major oversight on my part. i guess i should look one of those female profile flaps maybe?

 

[JohnnySebring]

hmm not getting the flaps was a major oversight on my part. i guess i should look one of those female profile flaps maybe?

Get the ones where she's holding the revolver and wearing the cowboy boots.

 

[saywatt]

Thanks for the input everyone. BB destroys the front plate on my truck every time I forget to take it off - which is most of the time I was hoping I wouldn't have the same issue on the Leaf but it sounds like the plate frame is the armor I need.

Yea, I think it is a must to keep our cars clean for demonstration purposes.....that is why mine is black! I saw what I thought was the first grey Leaf of its kind the other day and realized it was blue when I got closer :lol: I will still use the microfiber (they work great - check em at O'Riley's) to finish up because it's paramount to keep the motor compartment clean for the demo - plus the borrowed towels are crap. And BTW, I'm amazed at how clean the motor compartmentshias stayed since June even on the messiest of days.

BB has discount coupons in the junk mailers that come around from time to time. Some are a better deal than the gas disc. And the BB guys, in Issaquah anyway, don't seem to worry about the expiration dates.

Mud flaps??? There goes the range, but then so does the 1" thick slab of fir needles that accumulate on the bottom of the doors :!:

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

front plate? who has a front plate?