ICEless in Seattle : Official Pacific NorthWest thread

[ebill3]

I'll head down this afternoon and maybe again on Sunday.

How about a quick report on charge availability. I'll need one as I like creature comforts - a heated car.

Bill

 

[FairwoodRed]

I was down there for a few hours this afternoon. I got a 20 min quick charge and they didn't have many people coming thru, so they let me park near the quick charger for the duration. I did have to leave a number on the car in case they needed it moved.

If you are coming with your Leaf, you should be able to tell the guard at the security booth, on 2nd and Thomas, that you are with the Nissan event and they should let you thru. When you get in, drive between the two circle areas and head towards where the old fun forest used to be - that is where thier generator/quick charger is at.

I was given a t-shirt that says "I'm in ECO mode" and has 5 trees in different states of growth. Also, arround the t-shirt is what I thought was a rubber band, but is actually an eco friendly bracelet (don't throw yours away accidentally!)

There was a trickle of interested people thru the event, but I still found a couple that wanted to hear from me.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I was down there for a few hours this afternoon. I got a 20 min quick charge and they didn't have many people coming thru, so they let me park near the quick charger for the duration. I did have to leave a number on the car in case they needed it moved.

If you are coming with your Leaf, you should be able to tell the guard at the security booth, on 2nd and Thomas, that you are with the Nissan event and they should let you thru. When you get in, drive between the two circle areas and head towards where the old fun forest used to be - that is where thier generator/quick charger is at.

I was given a t-shirt that says "I'm in ECO mode" and has 5 trees in different states of growth. Also, arround the t-shirt is what I thought was a rubber band, but is actually an eco friendly bracelet (don't throw yours away accidentally!)

There was a trickle of interested people thru the event, but I still found a couple that wanted to hear from me.

thanks for the report~!

 

[ebill3]

I was down there for a few hours this afternoon. I got a 20 min quick charge and they didn't have many people coming thru, so they let me park near the quick charger for the duration. I did have to leave a number on the car in case they needed it moved.

If you are coming with your Leaf, you should be able to tell the guard at the security booth, on 2nd and Thomas, that you are with the Nissan event and they should let you thru. When you get in, drive between the two circle areas and head towards where the old fun forest used to be - that is where thier generator/quick charger is at.

Thank you.

I would like to get about an hour or so of L2 so I can enjoy some heat. No quick charge port.

Bill

 

[saywatt]

I was down there for a few hours this afternoon. I got a 20 min quick charge and they didn't have many people coming thru, so they let me park near the quick charger for the duration. I did have to leave a number on the car in case they needed it moved.

If you are coming with your Leaf, you should be able to tell the guard at the security booth, on 2nd and Thomas, that you are with the Nissan event and they should let you thru. When you get in, drive between the two circle areas and head towards where the old fun forest used to be - that is where thier generator/quick charger is at.

I was given a t-shirt that says "I'm in ECO mode" and has 5 trees in different states of growth. Also, arround the t-shirt is what I thought was a rubber band, but is actually an eco friendly bracelet (don't throw yours away accidentally!)

There was a trickle of interested people thru the event, but I still found a couple that wanted to hear from me.

Thanks FairwoodRed. I was going down today but it was below freezing in my garage this morning (plus I started to charge late) so the Leaf didn't charge to 100% (from about 50%) in the time it usually takes. I probably had enough juice to go but decided on Saturday instead.

When you said drive between the 2 circle areas, did you mean the fountain and the round grass area?

 

[saywatt]

Checked out the Seattle Center drive tour today. Tried out the QC, received the free T's for wife and me, had hot Starbucks VIA coffee, talked with the nice Nissan folks. But for anyone going down on Sunday, eat first - there was no publicized food! :?

 

[tomsax]

Cathy and I are organizing a group order for GaryGid's SOC Meter kit, which will save us on shipping costs.

Turning the kit into the SOC meter requires soldering and assembly. If there's interest, we'll try to organize a gathering to do a group build on the Eastside. We're in Sammamish and have a candidate build location in Bellevue.

If you're in the area and want to join in for the order, send me a pm.

 

[saywatt]

Can you repost the link that actually tells one what this GaryGid meter is? I see all the "how to" tech posts but I can't find the "this is what it looks like" and "this is why it's better" posts. Thanks :!: :!:

Cathy and I are organizing a group order for GaryGid's SOC Meter kit, which will save us on shipping costs.

Turning the kit into the SOC meter requires soldering and assembly. If there's interest, we'll try to organize a gathering to do a group build on the Eastside. We're in Sammamish and have a candidate build location in Bellevue.

If you're in the area and want to join in for the order, send me a pm.

 

[tomsax]

Can you repost the link that actually tells one what this GaryGid meter is? I see all the "how to" tech posts but I can't find the "this is what it looks like" and "this is why it's better" posts. Thanks :!: :!:

The SOC-Meter shows the car's state of charge to the nearest tenth of a percent, which is much better resolution than the 12 bars and far more useful than the guess-o-meter.

This link shows what it looks like: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=5934#p139282" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here's Gary's page: http://www.wwwsite.com/puzzles/socmeter/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[FairwoodRed]

At the Bay Area meeting with the Leaf Engineers, the head engineer took some time to talk about the troubles with providing a precise State Of Charge reading. He shared how when the car is operating, they can't use cell voltage to estimate SOC because the load of the car causes the cell voltage to vary wildly while under load.

He went so far as to say that the only time they could get an accurate State Of Charge reading is when the car is turned on or turned off. He said anything in between is just guesses.

Mark Perry, later at that same meeting said that essentially what they are doing is estimating stored power at start up, measuring how much power is leaving the battery, and calculating/smoothing to provide the dash guage. All of these comments tend to cast doubt on the accuracy of a three digit SOC meter.



Having said that, the GaryGid SOC meter has identified and is using a data register that, while we don't know for sure what its intent was, sure seems to follow battery state of charge. Many people have now been using it and are having good success.

I guess the point of my rambling is that we should all understand that there may be some unknown limitations in this reverse-engineered bit of hardware.

 

[tomsax]

At the Bay Area meeting with the Leaf Engineers, the head engineer took some time to talk about the troubles with providing a precise State Of Charge reading.

You are correct, it's important for everyone to understand that the SOC is only an approximation. It's probably silly to show the SOC to 0.1%. We have the same situation with our RAV4-EV and Tesla Roadster. It's still incredibly useful to have a higher resolution number than the LEAF's 12 bars.

The guess-o-meter takes the current SOC estimate and multiplies it by a scale factor computed from your recent driving. I just want the SOC estimate without being multiplied by an unknowable scale factor. The problem with the GOM is that it depends on the driving conditions/style in the past. It's the future I care about. In our other cars, we use the unfiltered SOC estimate to know if we need to modify our driving to reach our destination. Most of the time, the answer is no. On the occasions where it's going to be close, it's a big help to have the raw information so I can tell if I need to slow down or switch routes, or if I need to find a charging spot. The GOM is too volatile to give me that information.

This morning, Cathy was planning a trip that's near the range limit of the RAV4-EV. She was able to look at our log book and see that it takes about 35% SOC in the winter (closer to 30% in the summer) to do the roundtrip to her parents, which involves significant elevation gain, plus our experience driving more level routes for the rest. With that info, she was able to figure out that the trip is doable, and also to have an SOC number in mind that tells her if she needs to stop for a charge at the last opportunity 2/3 of the way through the trip.

This sort of information is impossible to determine from the LEAF's instrumentation. The GOM is no help because it depends on your driving before you even start the trip. Subtracting one GOM value from another is worse than useless. The bars aren't much better. If a certain drive goes from 7 bars to 5 bars, that could be just over 1 bar (the bottom of bar 7 to the top of bar 5), about 8%, or nearly three bars (top of bar 7 to bottom of bar 5), about 24%. That's a factor of three difference!

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

Tom, I agree to some extent. I wish we were given an actual value and an estimate, like how an air integrated dive computer shows psi remaining and an estimate of how long that gas will last a diver under current consumption rate. The number is always eronious to some extent but does offer a feedback loop that is important. I don't use the Guesometer to plan a trip, that usually comes from experience, but I have found it to be very useful in helping monitor if I'm doing enough to extend the end point far enough to get where I'm going. I can see how an actual value would be useful in addition to what we have, but I don't want to see the guesometer go away... I've been able to modulate my driving technique using the quesometer to get me home as quick as possible, using exactly the amount of charge I have by zeroing the trip odometer and making sure the miles left is adequate. The rapid fluctuation of less or more helps me figure out just how much more or less conservatively I need to drive given the charge I have left.

At the Bay Area meeting with the Leaf Engineers, the head engineer took some time to talk about the troubles with providing a precise State Of Charge reading.

You are correct, it's important for everyone to understand that the SOC is only an approximation. It's probably silly to show the SOC to 0.1%. We have the same situation with our RAV4-EV and Tesla Roadster. It's still incredibly useful to have a higher resolution number than the LEAF's 12 bars.

The guess-o-meter takes the current SOC estimate and multiplies it by a scale factor computed from your recent driving. I just want the SOC estimate without being multiplied by an unknowable scale factor. The problem with the GOM is that it depends on the driving conditions/style in the past. It's the future I care about. In our other cars, we use the unfiltered SOC estimate to know if we need to modify our driving to reach our destination. Most of the time, the answer is no. On the occasions where it's going to be close, it's a big help to have the raw information so I can tell if I need to slow down or switch routes, or if I need to find a charging spot. The GOM is too volatile to give me that information.

This morning, Cathy was planning a trip that's near the range limit of the RAV4-EV. She was able to look at our log book and see that it takes about 35% SOC in the winter (closer to 30% in the summer) to do the roundtrip to her parents, which involves significant elevation gain, plus our experience driving more level routes for the rest. With that info, she was able to figure out that the trip is doable, and also to have an SOC number in mind that tells her if she needs to stop for a charge at the last opportunity 2/3 of the way through the trip.

This sort of information is impossible to determine from the LEAF's instrumentation. The GOM is no help because it depends on your driving before you even start the trip. Subtracting one GOM value from another is worse than useless. The bars aren't much better. If a certain drive goes from 7 bars to 5 bars, that could be just over 1 bar (the bottom of bar 7 to the top of bar 5), about 8%, or nearly three bars (top of bar 7 to bottom of bar 5), about 24%. That's a factor of three difference!

 

[saywatt]

Ok Northwesterners, now that we've had this high-pressure bubble over our heads with clear skies, frigid temps, dry air (relatively speaking,, I mean no rain), and freezing fog, has anyone observed anything interesting about your Leaf?

Here is what I've seen (no complaints, just observations):

• With no rain, the interior fogging issue during pre-heat has gone away. I think the reason is no wet floor matts or raincoats.

• WIth no ICE under the hood to provide heat, the entire front of the car frosts up after it sits in a parking lot for a while. No problem, just looks funny as I walk to the car after sitting in a parking lot for a short while. All the ICEs around me are frost clear.

• Frosting of the headlight housing is a different issue. Since the LEDs don't produce the heat of a traditional headlamp, the housing frosts up and doesn't un-frost - especially if freezing fog conditions are present. I've had to pull over and wipe them off in order to see on our dark country roads.

Funny story: Last night, 10PM, returning from friends, on Maple Valley Hwy I put my high-beams on. No additional light goes forward of the car, it all goes to the side, lighting up the lane next to me and the ditch to the right. I thought, wow, great fog lamps! :lol: I had to pull over and wipe the frost off the housings. No additional frosting occurred for the trip duration.

Happy Holidays! (Santa emoticon goes here!)

 

[highcountryrider]

I returned to the Tukwilla light rail station last night around 10PM ish. (After
seeing A Christmas Carol at ACT. ) It was 32ºF when I parked around 4PM,
28º when I returned.

Much the same experience. I had plenty of juice, so I sat in the car and ran the
defogger maxed out to melt the ice off the windows - that works as expected
and is as effective, if not more so, than my ICE vehicles. The headlights never
did de-ice, but the short drive home is well lighted and I didn't have any problems
seeing the road.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Last night we did the holiday light in Spanaway and we gaff to run defrost quite a bit.

 

[saywatt]

Now that I have confirmation of my personalized plates, below is the list of options available in Washington State as of 12/8/11:

ECOWATT, ECODRIV, NODINOS, HI VLTG, WATTTHE, WATTDAT, GOREWON, FEXXON, FUEXXON, BPEDOUT, BPD OUT, BMONBP, ECOFRND, ECOKIND, ECORIDE, UNPLUGD, NOSMOG, XFOSSIL, RAYOVAC, EVRREDY, EV REDY, EVREADY, RECHGBL, PUMP PSR, ANULEAF, FUELEWSS, EVNOGAS, NOGASEV, GAS NONE, LECTRON, GASSLES, 0GASEV, EX FUEL, BEINGRN.

The following were taken as of the same date. Whoever took my username as a plate . . . . . I'm looking for you!! :x :x

0GAS, AMPDUP, LECTRIC, WATTUP, ACDC, WATTSUP, WATTSUP, BEARHUG, LEAF EV, BE LEAF, RE LEAF, ZEROGAS, GASLESS, NOMOGAS, CHRGDUP, SAYWATT


To look up a plate in WA, go here:

https://fortress.wa.gov/dol/dolprod/vsdpersonalplate/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[highcountryrider]

BYBYOIL is also taken in WA.

 

[highcountryrider]

Approaching Burien on the fwy today, a man in a Prius waved me to pull over.
I answered his questions in the Ivar's parking lot.

 

[Drivesolo]

Approaching Burien on the fwy today, a man in a Prius waved me to pull over.
I answered his questions in the Ivar's parking lot.

What were his questions?

 

[derekjsmith]

• Frosting of the headlight housing is a different issue. Since the LEDs don't produce the heat of a traditional headlamp, the housing frosts up and doesn't un-frost - especially if freezing fog conditions are present. I've had to pull over and wipe them off in order to see on our dark country roads.

Funny story: Last night, 10PM, returning from friends, on Maple Valley Hwy I put my high-beams on. No additional light goes forward of the car, it all goes to the side, lighting up the lane next to me and the ditch to the right. I thought, wow, great fog lamps! :lol: I had to pull over and wipe the frost off the housings. No additional frosting occurred for the trip duration.

Yes this an issue had it happen a few weeks ago.

Also along these lines I was at Best Buy corporate headquarters the winter before last and was talking with the cabbie about seeing deicer trucks running around and spraying all the intersection lights. He said Minneapolis installed all new street and intersection lights the summer before that are LED based to save a lot of money but found out they were having to spend that savings on keeping the lights ice free during the winter.