I need an under 20KW DC ChaDeMo Quick Charger

[Ingineer]

Kanematsu has three DC quick chargers available, the one that would best suite the "under 20kW" requirement would be the "DC Fast 25KW", input power is 16kW and output is 25kW. It's probably also the most "affordable" one. They also have an "Ultra Fast" model that can output 160kW :shock:

Interesting! Those all have internal storage batteries, so that means probably 3x the cost of a "normal" QC. First off there's the cost of the cells, then you have to have 2 inverters; one for charging the pack, and another for buck/boost to the CHAdeMO output. The plus is you can get faster than 20kW charging w/o tripping your demand, but that cost is not going to be easy to swallow. On top of that, you have to maintain the pack in there, which probably isn't going to have the longest life with the largish constant charge/discharge currents. I'd scared to think how short it's life would be in Phoenix!

-Phil

 

[Ingineer]

Probably going to buy this:

http://www.andromedapower.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You've given up waiting on the Nissan unit? Hmm, Looks like you'll have to wait on Andromeda an unspecified amount of time, as they are only in Pre-order stage. Did you get a time quote?

Seems like those guys at Andromeda are all Italian. Not to generalize or anything, but almost w/o exception all Italian engineering is beautiful but the electrical systems are scary! :shock:

-Phil

 

[edatoakrun]

Would any of you care to comment on the implications for future charge station development, of the report below, for the benefit of us liberal arts majors?

"ZOE is the only electric vehicle to feature the Chameleon charger. Patented by Renault, this charger is compatible with all power levels up to 43kW. Charging batteries at a charging station can take between 30 minutes and nine hours. For example, ZOE can be charged in an hour at 22kW. This intermediate power level extends battery life and puts less pressure on the power grid than the fast-charging of batteries at 43kW. Fast-charging stations are currently equipped with high-power chargers. Now that the Chameleon charger is fitted to the vehicle, there is no longer any need for chargers at charging stations. New fast-charging stations will be opened which are easier and more cost-effective. They will cost less than €3,000, a quarter of the cost of existing fast-charging stations."

http://blog.renault.com/en/2012/03/06/renault-zoe-quite-simply-revolutionary-and-yet-a-reality/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2824&start=50" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[TonyWilliams]

You've given up waiting on the Nissan unit? Hmm, Looks like you'll have to wait on Andromeda an unspecified amount of time, as they are only in Pre-order stage. Did you get a time quote?

Seems like those guys at Andromeda are all Italian. Not to generalize or anything, but almost w/o exception all Italian engineering is beautiful but the electrical systems are scary! :shock:

-Phil

Yes, I've have an Italian off road bike in my garage... it has AC powered lights !

Several goods with this. 1. Made here in California, within LEAF distance from my house. 2. Light weight and portable... I can put it in the trunk (200 pounds of lightweight). 3. I can have it customized for power in and power level (via software). 4. I can preorder at a good price. 5. I can pick up the phone and speak directly with somebody to get it fixed. 6. Nothing that couldn't be reverse engineered if I needed parts from a defunct company. 7. Looks cool. 8. I think Nissan is in the smoke and mirrors stage, and can't get basic info.

I could get one hand built in Italy now, but they'd literally have to drop everything for me. Or wait 2-3 months for a SoCal production unit.

 

[Randy]

Looks good, Tony...Has the unit already been certified by UL or another NRTL? They don't really say on their website (that I saw)...

 

[TonyWilliams]

Yes, working on UL listing. Another neat option is the "pistol grip" handle (instead of Yazaki version 2). This unit could literally be thrown on a truck with a genset and taken anywhere... Which is exactly why AAA will be using them.

Our unit kept shutting down at 10 minutes, because that is the AAA default setting. 10 minutes might be a really great perk (20-30 miles of range).

 

[ElectricVehicle]

I need an under 20KW DC CHAdeMO Quick Charger

We're identifying a few units that are 20kW or can be set to a reduced power output of 20kW, now the question is, at what price point?

I found out the general information about the Andromeda unit a while back, it's over $10,000. I have yet to find a QC that is less than $10,000 at any power level.

When someone finds a QC of 6.6 kW or greater that is under $10,000, please post.

6.6 kW and very light is good to make use of 240V 30A J1772, preferrably under $2,000.
20 kW and light is good to make use of 240V 70A J1772 (about a dozen already exist in California), and various 240V 50A (12 kW) circuits at RV parks, generator and event connections, NEMA 14-50 outlets on 50A circuits at home in industrial settings etc. Nice at under $2,000 to $5,000. Under $2,000 makes it acessible personally, $5,000 for installation at a business or shared by a club or group of people.

All of these using low cost, frequently existing electrical connections.

 

[TickTock]

I would add the criteria of single phase. I would buy a single-phase 20kw QC as soon as it was available for <$5K. I have a 115A, 240V single phase welding circuit which I would like to use but really hate the idea of having to add a rotary phase converter in addition to the QC.

 

[ElectricVehicle]

Andromeda Power's ORCA-Mobile
208/400/480V, 50/60Hz, mono-phase, 2 or 3-phases
User selectable power level up to 50 kW
WiFi internet interface and credit card payment. Remote control/monitoring from smart phones.
70 kg (155 lbs)
Protection IP54, size: [W]63cm (25”), [D]40cm (16”), [H]100cm (40”)

Price: $25,000.00
Pre-Order (March): $17,500.00
Pre-Order (February): $15,000.00

http://andromedapower.com/Orca_Mobile.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Dino]

I wonder if anyone is developing a flywheel charger. It could accumulate energy from a low power source then deliver a QC. It might be more practical than a battery. It might need an idle mode and smarts so you could let it know you’re coming so it could accumulate according to demand.

Does that sound practical? Maybe for rural gas stations that don’t have high power available.

 

[Smidge204]

I wonder if anyone is developing a flywheel charger. It could accumulate energy from a low power source then deliver a QC. It might be more practical than a battery. It might need an idle mode and smarts so you could let it know you’re coming so it could accumulate according to demand.

Does that sound practical? Maybe for rural gas stations that don’t have high power available.

Beacon Power has just the thing you need! The Smart Energy 25 flywheel storage module stores 25kWh of energy - perfect for a quick LEAF fill-up! A carbon fiber cylinder spins at 16,000 RPM, suspended by magnetic bearings in a near total vacuum. But considering the thing is just slightly smaller than the LEAF itself, and is installed in a concrete containment bunker that is slightly LARGER than the LEAF itself, I'm going to go with "not practical" for this situation... and gosh only knows how much the damn thing costs! :lol:
=Smidge=

 

[Dino]

I wonder if anyone is developing a flywheel charger. It could accumulate energy from a low power source then deliver a QC. It might be more practical than a battery. It might need an idle mode and smarts so you could let it know you’re coming so it could accumulate according to demand.

Does that sound practical? Maybe for rural gas stations that don’t have high power available.

Beacon Power has just the thing you need! The Smart Energy 25 flywheel storage module stores 25kWh of energy - perfect for a quick LEAF fill-up! A carbon fiber cylinder spins at 16,000 RPM, suspended by magnetic bearings in a near total vacuum. But considering the thing is just slightly smaller than the LEAF itself, and is installed in a concrete containment bunker that is slightly LARGER than the LEAF itself, I'm going to go with "not practical" for this situation... and gosh only knows how much the damn thing costs! :lol:
=Smidge=

As the charging demand goes up how will we charge multiple cars at a time? 10-20 cars at a highway oasis at peak demand time. I think a flywheel would make a good buffer. Dig up the gas tanks and bury the flywheels.

 

[DaveEV]

ABB just announced a 20 kW CHAdeMO station - US$13,310

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2012/03/abb-20120328.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Terra SC is specifically designed for convenient fast charging in commercial and office areas. Unlike some other DC fast chargers, the Terra SC uses the widely available 3-phase 32A input, which eliminates the need for a costly grid connection upgrade. The Terra SC uses a CHAdeMO standard connections, and delivers maximum DC output power of 20 kW and maximum DC output current of 50 A. Output DC voltage range is 180 – 500 V.

 

[hill]

That's still higher than the $10k AV unit (which is as hard to find as the invisible man with his bandages off). Hopefully it will actually be available ... and UL approved.

ABB just announced a 20 kW CHAdeMO station - US$13,310

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2012/03/abb-20120328.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Terra SC is specifically designed for convenient fast charging in commercial and office areas. Unlike some other DC fast chargers, the Terra SC uses the widely available 3-phase 32A input, which eliminates the need for a costly grid connection upgrade. The Terra SC uses a CHAdeMO standard connections, and delivers maximum DC output power of 20 kW and maximum DC output current of 50 A. Output DC voltage range is 180 – 500 V.

 

[TonyWilliams]

That's still higher than the $10k AV unit (which is as hard to find as the invisible many with his bandages off). Hopefully it will actually be available ... and UL approved.

If you're referring to the Nissan / Sumitomo unit, distributed by AeroVironment, ya, that's hard to find !!!!

 

[GerryAZ]

I am watching this thread for ideas on reasonably-priced quick chargers with less than 20 kW demand. I am not sure about other utilities, but APS here in Arizona also has the 20 kW demand threshold for commercial service. They even have 1-hour peak demand charges on residential service which only applies on peak (during the day on weekdays). If I can find a single-phase portable quick charger, I can use it at night or weekends at home and anytime at my workshop/garage. A 10 kW unit would be ideal because it could be plugged in to a 50-ampere receptacle.

Gerry

 

[TonyWilliams]

There are several exploring 10-ish kW portable DC chargers, but I wouldn't expect anything this year.

 

[bowthom]

Hello,
I originally planned to keep my leaf battery pack after it gets replaced in ??? years as a power source. There is no need for an inverter if your charger pack has sufficient voltage to push the current into the leaf. 1 or 2 extra battery modules would probably be enough. Just have to regulate the DC current flowing. Charge the power source battery at a lower rate when not fast charging the leaf.

Just thinking out loud...............while keying.

 

[edatoakrun]

Some of you facing demand charges may be interested in the Capstone available at auction below.

I have no financial interest in this auction, and no information beyond the listing. You may have to go to "California" in Region, at the link below, and scroll down the first page, to find the actual listing.

Remember, demand charges should not be an issue for most PG&E DC installations, and any microturbine will be far less efficient than the grid natural gas to electricity conversion. But one of these (approx 30 kW?) microturbines could be highly beneficial to a DC site facing a lower kW demand charge, and you might be able to get this one at a very good price.

CO-GEN SYSTEM: ONE LOT

Sale-Lot Number:91QSCI12203345
State:CA
Current Bid: 2,000 USD (Reserve Not Met)
Bidders: 0
Close Time:05/09 10:06 AM CT *
Time Remaining:5 Days, 22 Hours, 16 Minutes

Description

CO-GEN SYSTEM: ONE LOT INCLUDING: 1EA CAPSTONE MODEL 330 MICORTURBINE.GRID CONNECT, LOW PRESSUR, NATURAL GAS RFC COMPRESSOR, STAND ALONE FOR USE WITH INTERNAL MODEM; 1EA UNIFIN HEAT EXCHANGE (20 USGPM/110V/SINGLE PHASE/60 HZ). UNITS WERE INSTALLED IN 2002, BUT NEVER ACTIVATED. THEY ARE ESSENTIALLY UNUSED, BUT NO LONGER UNDER WARRANTY. UNITS ARE DISCONNECTED, BUT BUYER MUST REMOVE FROM BUILDING (GROUND FLOOR ACCESS) INSPECTION IS STRONGLY RECOMMENDED. (959121 2081 #0004) 95912120810004


THE CONDITION OF THE PROPERTY IS NOT WARRANTED.

Property Location and inquiries/questions regarding property, its inspection and/or removal:

1243 Appleton
In The Presidio
San Francisco, CA 94129

Contact: Dave Seabury
Phone: 415-561-4260
Fax: 415-561-4261

http://gsaauctions.gov/gsaauctions/aucbystate/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[hill]

WoW ! !

Isn't this what Phil, up in the Bay area, has on a trailer? And the auction shows that THIS capstone is up in the bay area . . . what a co-inky-dink. $2k opening bid with no takers yet. Yea, I'd LOVE to get me one of these. But I wouldn't wana get killed (by the boss) for buying it.