I live in Phoenix AZ 115+ hot summers - should I get a leaf?

[TomT]

That may be true in AZ but not in CA...

Many here are suggesting a Volt--be advised that it does not qualify for alternate fuel registration (HOV lane access and much less registration cost than normal vehicle license tax rate).

 

[TomT]

Unless they have come up with a magical formula that does not degrade with heat, they will not have me as a customer without a TMS... Fool me once shame on you...

They will have a new battery with 2015 model year. It probably won't have TMS, either.

 

[jhm614]

And Tony has referenced this article before, but this researcher says temps above 86 F do the most harm to a battery:

http://phys.org/news/2013-04-life-lithium-ion-batteries-electric.html#jCp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for reporting this! I was trying to relocate this article earlier.

 

[scottf200]

And Tony has referenced this article before, but this researcher says temps above 86 F do the most harm to a battery: http://phys.org/news/2013-04-life-lithium-ion-batteries-electric.html#jCp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks for reporting this! I was trying to relocate this article earlier.

86F seems to be the numbers GM came up with to. Article from Volt owner: By George S. Bower
volt-battery-thermal-management-system-in-the-hot-arizona-sun
http://gm-volt.com/2013/05/03/volt-battery-thermal-management-system-in-the-hot-arizona-sun/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Below is when plugged in. Link above shows cooling when not plugged in and the the SOC is sufficent.

 

[surfingslovak]

86F seems to be the numbers GM came up with to. Article from Volt owner: By George S. Bower

Good info, thanks for referencing that. Didn't Frank Weber say that keeping the battery close or at 71 F was important and even a few degrees above that could have a significant impact on battery life? All I found is this, but there was an SAE article on that too.

Can you say how low a temperature can the battery go on at?

No. A certain operating window that you have. You don’t have to always keep it at 71 degrees F. Ideally that is the temperature you would like it because that is where you have the maximum power output of the battery and you have the best life expectations.

Click to open

 

[shrink]

Unless they have come up with a magical formula that does not degrade with heat, they will not have me as a customer without a TMS... Fool me once shame on you...

I fully agree! I don't understand why some are so TMS averse with the current technology and in this climate.

From that article I referenced earlier:

"A temperature above 86 degrees F affects the battery pack performance instantly and even permanently if it lasts many months like in Middle East countries.

or a summer in Phoenix!

 

[thankyouOB]

Definitely do a two-year lease. The jury is still out on how the battery pack will do compared to earlier years. Before you lease however, let me use my LEAF App to check the battery pack capacity so you can start with a full pack. I didn't have this App when I leased mine. It was probably at least 3% down, and now it's 7% down in capacity.
Also, the A/C uses much more energy than previous years.

what do you mean that the AC uses more energy that before?
as result of the loss of a bar?

 

[scottf200]

86F seems to be the numbers GM came up with to. Article from Volt owner: By George S. Bower

Good info, thanks for referencing that. Didn't Frank Weber say that keeping the battery close or at 71 F was important and even a few degrees above that could have a significant impact on battery life? All I found is this, but there was an SAE article on that too.

I recall the 71-73F number too.
Looks like even when unplugged but power on it will lower it to that area. Below is while parked but with "power on" so that would be the same as driving it. The parked test removeds variables. From the article I mentioned above.

 

[LEAFfan]

Definitely do a two-year lease. The jury is still out on how the battery pack will do compared to earlier years. Before you lease however, let me use my LEAF App to check the battery pack capacity so you can start with a full pack. I didn't have this App when I leased mine. It was probably at least 3% down, and now it's 7% down in capacity.
Also, the A/C uses much more energy than previous years.

what do you mean that the AC uses more energy that before?
as result of the loss of a bar?

My 2013's A/C uses more energy/kW than my 2011 did, much more. It (2011) used to go to 1.5kW, then after a few minutes it would drop to a sliver and my m/kW h would stay about the same. Now, it stays just a hair below 1.5 and never goes down to a sliver. And this is based on an 89F setting. Last year I had it set cooler at 85F and it still used very little energy. Now, my mpkWh drops like a rock even with more efficient driving than last year. It's very obvious to me that it isn't the same unit as in previous years.

 

[TickTock]

Definitely do a two-year lease. The jury is still out on how the battery pack will do compared to earlier years. Before you lease however, let me use my LEAF App to check the battery pack capacity so you can start with a full pack. I didn't have this App when I leased mine. It was probably at least 3% down, and now it's 7% down in capacity.
Also, the A/C uses much more energy than previous years.

what do you mean that the AC uses more energy that before?
as result of the loss of a bar?

My 2013's A/C uses more energy/kW than my 2011 did, much more. It (2011) used to go to 1.5kW, then after a few minutes it would drop to a sliver and my m/kW h would stay about the same. Now, it stays just a hair below 1.5 and never goes down to a sliver. And this is based on an 89F setting. Last year I had it set cooler at 85F and it still used very little energy. Now, my mpkWh drops like a rock even with more efficient driving than last year. It's very obvious to me that it isn't the same unit as in previous years.

Out of curiosity, what does it do when you set it to 85? I'd like to do some side-by-side tests one of these days with your 2013 and my 2011 just to be sure if you get a chance. This is rather alarming since I was considering purchasing a 2013 and giving my 2011 to my son who is just coming of driving age. If true, I will be looking for a used 2012.

 

[wiltingleaf]

Can anybody tell me how Nissan Leafs do in hot weather? Specially Arizona weather? Please let me know. Thanks

Please check out my website http://wiltingleaf.com before making this decision. I would highly recommend that you look at a different vehicle in Phoenix. I used to own and Leaf and have since had Nissan buy it back from me and I've moved into a Ford Focus Electric (FFE). The FFE so far has been fine, but I haven't had it for that long. I don't like it as much as I liked my Leaf when I first got it because it really feels like a ICE car with electric parts. The Leaf felt like it was designed to be an electric car. The other thing that I really don't like about the FFE is the truck is just really poorly designed. You can't fit anything in it. I haven't driven the RAV4, but I did test drive the Tesla S and I loved it, but I can't afford it.

 

[LEAFfan]

[

Definitely do a two-year lease. The jury is still out on how the battery pack will do compared to earlier years. Before you lease however, let me use my LEAF App to check the battery pack capacity so you can start with a full pack. I didn't have this App when I leased mine. It was probably at least 3% down, and now it's 7% down in capacity.
Also, the A/C uses much more energy than previous years.

My 2013's A/C uses more energy/kW than my 2011 did, much more. It (2011) used to go to 1.5kW, then after a few minutes it would drop to a sliver and my m/kW h would stay about the same. Now, it stays just a hair below 1.5 and never goes down to a sliver. And this is based on an 89F setting. Last year I had it set cooler at 85F and it still used very little energy. Now, my mpkWh drops like a rock even with more efficient driving than last year. It's very obvious to me that it isn't the same unit as in previous years.

Out of curiosity, what does it do when you set it to 85? I'd like to do some side-by-side tests one of these days with your 2013 and my 2011 just to be sure if you get a chance. This is rather alarming since I was considering purchasing a 2013 and giving my 2011 to my son who is just coming of driving age. If true, I will be looking for a used 2012.

LOL, when it is at 85, the meter goes higher (more kW) . That's why I leave it at 89F. It's a little disappointing.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Out of curiosity, what does it do when you set it to 85? I'd like to do some side-by-side tests one of these days with your 2013 and my 2011 just to be sure if you get a chance. This is rather alarming since I was considering purchasing a 2013 and giving my 2011 to my son who is just coming of driving age. If true, I will be looking for a used 2012.

Or you could buy a 2013 S model. It seems likely that it would have the same AC unit as the 2011/2012 since it also has the same PTC heater as the older models, rather than the heat pump in the SV/SL models (which is likely the reason for the less efficient cooling). I'm just guessing though; someone with an S should weigh-in on how well the AC unit works.

 

[gbarry42]

Where I was going with my comment on the A/C was that we need some corroboration to be sure your observation isn't unique. Which is to say, we need some more 2013 owners to tell us that they are seeing the same thing with their A/C power consumption. Also, as a simple test, hit the A/C off button (still has that?) and verify that the power drops to zero.

 

[cwerdna]

It's interesting the OP has been back but not replied at all.

I wonder if we're being punked and/or they just tossed a grenade and ran?

 

[Deleted member 9549]

It's interesting the OP has been back but not replied at all.

I wonder if we're being punked and/or they just tossed a grenade and ran?

Or based on the responses, they lost interest.
Although you might be onto something... interesting only 1 post ever.

 

[LEAFfan]

Out of curiosity, what does it do when you set it to 85? I'd like to do some side-by-side tests one of these days with your 2013 and my 2011 just to be sure if you get a chance. This is rather alarming since I was considering purchasing a 2013 and giving my 2011 to my son who is just coming of driving age. If true, I will be looking for a used 2012.

Or you could buy a 2013 S model. It seems likely that it would have the same AC unit as the 2011/2012 since it also has the same PTC heater as the older models, rather than the heat pump in the SV/SL models (which is likely the reason for the less efficient cooling). I'm just guessing though; someone with an S should weigh-in on how well the AC unit works.

+1 I also believe it has something to do with the heatpump which I doubt I'll ever use.

 

[LEAFfan]

Where I was going with my comment on the A/C was that we need some corroboration to be sure your observation isn't unique. Which is to say, we need some more 2013 owners to tell us that they are seeing the same thing with their A/C power consumption. Also, as a simple test, hit the A/C off button (still has that?) and verify that the power drops to zero.

Yeah, I'm still waiting to hear too from someone in a hot climate.
It goes to zero as expected.

 

[davidcary]

Of course as a general rule, a heat pump does not lose any efficiency over a comparable a/c unit. Sure they could have changed for cost reasons to a less efficient system. Mine seems very efficient but maybe I just don't know what I am missing.

FWIW, the GOM tends to take off 2 or 3 miles from a 100 range based on a/c being on.

I wouldn't at all consider a shifting of insulation around the battery to equate to "battery cooling", it just might be a small change that they did to cool the battery a tiny bit while driving. I certainly wasn't saying there might be cooling tubes in the battery, I was just saying that they may have removed an inch of fiberglass between the cabin and the battery. Thus the ambient temp battery with a lot of thermal mass may make the a/c run at higher "stage" for a longer period of time.

 

[surfingslovak]

I certainly wasn't saying there might be cooling tubes in the battery, I was just saying that they may have removed an inch of fiberglass between the cabin and the battery.

I don't believe that there ever was any fiberglass between the cabin and the battery. It's all steel, and always was. If I recall the 2011 shop manual, there is a gap between the pack and the bottom of the cabin, and there was some speculation about airflow around the pack, which removes any excess heat from the battery container through convection.