The Bolt has no heat pump. It too has a system for scavenging heat from the car's drivetrain (not the brakes) to provide a little heat, but in the Bolt's case it goes to the cabin.
The Bolt EV only has a resistive cabin heater. It also always has a dedicated battery heater.GRA said:Thanks, nice review. I forget,, does the Bolt have a heat pump, or just a resistive heater? If the Kona details are confirmed, the lack of availability of a heat pump for U.S. cars, at least along the coasts, south and desert southwest where winters are mild, is idiotic. It's not needed (although it will still waste energy) for local use where the range is excessive, but for road trips it does matter, and these cars have both the range and charging speeds to be used for weekend trips. The battery heater will be needed/wanted in mountain areas and the northern tier states. Offer them both as options and be done with ti, or at least make the heat pump standard and the heater optional.
I’m not aware of anything in the Bolt EV cabin heating that scavenges heat from the powertrain. The Bolt has a dedicated water-glycol loop that passes through an electric heater and then goes through a heat exchanger in the cabin ventilation ducts. This loop is completely separate from the powertrain coolant loop and there is no heat exchanger or computer-controlled valves that interconnect them to share heat as far as I know. The Bolt also has a 3rd coolant loop dedicated just to the battery pack.LeftieBiker said:The Bolt has no heat pump. It too has a system for scavenging heat from the car's drivetrain (not the brakes) to provide a little heat, but in the Bolt's case it goes to the cabin.
JeffN said:I’m not aware of anything in the Bolt EV cabin heating that scavenges heat from the powertrain. The Bolt has a dedicated water-glycol loop that passes through an electric heater and then goes through a heat exchanger in the cabin ventilation ducts. This loop is completely separate from the powertrain coolant loop and there is no heat exchanger or computer-controlled valves that interconnect them to share heat as far as I know. The Bolt also has a 3rd coolant loop dedicated just to the battery pack.LeftieBiker said:The Bolt has no heat pump. It too has a system for scavenging heat from the car's drivetrain (not the brakes) to provide a little heat, but in the Bolt's case it goes to the cabin.
By contrast, the Kona EV has only a single coolant loop for the motor, power electronics, and battery but appears to have computer controlled valves that can separate the battery into its own subloop when it doesn’t want to share heat from the powertrain.
You may be thinking of a different car? I’m pretty confident that the Bolt does not scavenge heat like that. The Bolt battery coolant loop does (like pretty much all cars with liquid-cooled battery packs) have a tap into the A/C refrigerant loop so a hot battery can cause the A/C system to start up to help cool the battery and this also cools the cabin even if cabin A/C is not specifically enabled. The reverse is not true in the Bolt — cabin heating and battery heating are entirely independent and do not share heat. I own a Bolt and bought a copy of the ~4,500 page Bolt service manual.LeftieBiker said:JeffN said:I’m not aware of anything in the Bolt EV cabin heating that scavenges heat from the powertrain. The Bolt has a dedicated water-glycol loop that passes through an electric heater and then goes through a heat exchanger in the cabin ventilation ducts. This loop is completely separate from the powertrain coolant loop and there is no heat exchanger or computer-controlled valves that interconnect them to share heat as far as I know. The Bolt also has a 3rd coolant loop dedicated just to the battery pack.LeftieBiker said:The Bolt has no heat pump. It too has a system for scavenging heat from the car's drivetrain (not the brakes) to provide a little heat, but in the Bolt's case it goes to the cabin.
By contrast, the Kona EV has only a single coolant loop for the motor, power electronics, and battery but appears to have computer controlled valves that can separate the battery into its own subloop when it doesn’t want to share heat from the powertrain.
The scavenging circuit was mentioned several times in early descriptions of the design, and was the explanation given when drivers experienced small amounts of heat entering the cabin when the Heater was off in mild weather. As I recall, the heat comes from the controller and maybe the inverter. I believe it is the basis for some people thinking that the Bolt has a heat pump. I'd go look in the Bolt forum, but at some point in this last year I lost access to all the other EV forums on this site...
You may be thinking of a different car? I’m pretty confident that the Bolt does not scavenge heat like that. The Bolt battery coolant loop does (like pretty much all cars with liquid-cooled battery packs) have a tap into the A/C refrigerant loop so a hot battery can cause the A/C system to start up to help cool the battery and this also cools the cabin even if cabin A/C is not specifically enabled. The reverse is not true in the Bolt — cabin heating and battery heating are entirely independent and do not share heat. I own a Bolt and bought a copy of the ~4,500 page Bolt service manual.
If the seats don't bother you (like Keijidosha they're fine for me, at least the cloth ones in the LT I drove were), per the Edmunds' test driving dynamics would give the nod to the Bolt if you're someone who likes to drive fast in the twisties - even though I didn't have the chance to do so when I drove one, I really liked the Bolt's regen controls and general feel. If the Kona comes in about the same price or less than the Bolt it's undoubtedly a better value for the dollar, and the better ride would give it the nod for A to B commuting on the potholed, truck-waved freeways we have.Valdemar said:I took a closer look yesterday at LA Auto Show. Given a choice of the Kona and the Bolt, I don't know why would one buy the Bolt except for availability reasons.
https://insideevs.com/hyundai-kona-electric-range-lowered-wltp/Hyundai Kona Electric Gets Range Downgraded Too: Follows Kia Niro EV
Now the WLTP to EPA numbers make more sense.When the specifications for the 64-kWh version of the Hyundai Kona Electric first appeared, it was graced with a range of 292 miles under Worldwide harmonized Light vehicles Test Procedure (WLTP). If it seemed a little too good to be true, that’s because it was. The automaker has learned that the external agency responsible for making the calculation slipped up, and Hyundai has now published new, lower figures.
According to a report in Autocar, the 64-kWh Kona Electric is now rated at 279 miles under the WLTP, while the 39.2-kWh version — which will not be available in the U.S. — has been downgraded from 186 miles to 180 miles. The news comes after learning that its corporate cousin, the Kia Niro EV (e-Niro), suffered the same fate. . . .
In the U.S., meanwhile, the EPA has rated the 64-kWh Kona Electric at 258 miles, which we believe is a more realistic figure. For its part, the (64-kWh) Kia Niro EV was given a more believable 239 miles of travel on a charge using the U.S. agency test.
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/12/20181215-kona.htmlHyundai prices Kona Electric starting at $36,450 before Fed tax credit
That's a base MSRP only $170 less than the Bolt LT, although you get more car for that.Hyundai announced that the starting price for the 2019 Kona Electric electric crossover is $36,450, for an effective net price of $28,950 ($29,995 including delivery), with the electric vehicle tax credit of $7,500 factored in. . . .
https://electricrevs.com/2018/12/20/exclusive-details-on-hyundais-new-battery-thermal-management-design/Hyundai’s new 2019 Kona Electric, with its 64 kWh battery and an EPA-rated 258 miles of range, has gotten many positive initial reviews but until now we haven’t known much about some important aspects of its internal powertrain design.
....Now, Hyundai has revealed these details to Electric Revs for their new generation of all-electric cars.
When a dedicated 2 kW battery heater is available (as in the Canadian version), it is used primarily at sub-zero temperatures (0C or 32F) or when the driver enables an optional “Winter Mode”. The battery heater, if present, is located outside the battery pack and warms the liquid “coolant” just before it enters into the pack.
My understanding is that battery warming using the dedicated battery heater, if present, starts at 32F if “Winter Mode” is disabled.LeftieBiker said:It's always nice to read a piece with no typos or mistakes. Good job. I do have one question:
When a dedicated 2 kW battery heater is available (as in the Canadian version), it is used primarily at sub-zero temperatures (0C or 32F) or when the driver enables an optional “Winter Mode”. The battery heater, if present, is located outside the battery pack and warms the liquid “coolant” just before it enters into the pack.
Battery warming really starts at 32F?
I think you mean, and the article states "the battery heater is used primarily at sub-zero temperatures (0C or 32F) or when the driver enables an optional “Winter Mode”.JeffN said:My understanding is that battery warming using the dedicated battery heater, if present, starts at 32F if “Winter Mode” is disabled.LeftieBiker said:It's always nice to read a piece with no typos or mistakes. Good job. I do have one question:
When a dedicated 2 kW battery heater is available (as in the Canadian version), it is used primarily at sub-zero temperatures (0C or 32F) or when the driver enables an optional “Winter Mode”. The battery heater, if present, is located outside the battery pack and warms the liquid “coolant” just before it enters into the pack.
Battery warming really starts at 32F?
Some amount of heat will be exchanged from the motor, motor inverter, and on-board charger when the battery heater is not being used and temperatures are cool but above around 32F.
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