HyperLoop (was It's a series of TUBES!)

[GregH]

35 minute run and no bathrooms? Uh-uh. All it takes is one person with an upset stomach or a bladder problem and that capsule will be out of service while its cleaned, and the pax will probably be so embarrassed that they'll never use it again. Either that, or everyone is issued with an adult diaper before boarding, and, as the Fidel-clone character overcome by megalomania ordered in 'Bananas', "Underwear will be worn on the outside, so we can check".

LOL! Yeah it really is more of a spaceship.. Maybe L.A. to Vegas (20-25mins?) makes more sense than going up against the political monster that is the California high speed rail... I remember back in the early 90s there was talk of a high speed rail between L.A. and Vegas. I wonder if L.V. has recovered enough to invest in something like this? That would be about the right distance for a proof of concept.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

There was an interesting show recently (I think on PBS) on elevators. One of the things they talked about was the innovation in the original World Trade Center towers to introduce elevator lobbies on higher floors. Elevators have limits on how far they can travel; you can't make an elevator go 110 stories, the cables would break under their own weight. Also, trying to service that many floors, the elevator shafts would take up practically the whole building, leaving no space for occupants.

So maybe the hyperloop is a bit like a sideways elevator. Instead of a 30 minute 400 mile ride from LA to SF, you break it into two 15 minute 200 mile rides. Or whatever. That opens possibilities for hub and spoke systems and other topologies that service more locations.

 

[GRA]

I suppose the part that worries me most is that this is essentially a single point to point connector which basically ignores all the population centers in the San Joaquin Valley (with some mumbling about spurs to Fresno and Sacramento). At least the high-speed rail line runs along all those 50k+ population cities along Hwy 99. Admittedly, that's what I-5 is largely for, to ignore all those cities and move people between LA and S.F. But do we really want to build a _new_ mass transit system like that? Yes, routing along I-5 keeps land acquisition costs down, but seems to me to lack the necessary utility to engage enough of the population to help pay for it. Unless they think they can do this with only private funds, and how likely is that?

I do like the idea of a proof of concept L.A. to Vegas route, with probably a stop in San Bernardino. Whether the revenue is there for that, I have no idea.

 

[Nubo]

I suppose the part that worries me most is that this is essentially a single point to point connector which basically ignores all the population centers in the San Joaquin Valley ...

To me that's the beauty of it. A high-speed link has no business meandering about the state with repeated stops.

 

[jackal]

To me that's the beauty of it. A high-speed link has no business meandering about the state with repeated stops.

+1. People will just drive for those cities in between anyway!

I would rather have a hypertube between LA and SF in 10 years than HSR in 20 years.

 

[mitch672]

The issue is, it's more spacecraft than train. The atmosphere inside the tube is as thin as being at 150,000 feet of altitude. It will probably take several miles for it to accelerate and decelerate, it's really better for longer distance travel, the linear motors are every 70 miles... The beauty of it is, pods can be launched as often as every 30 seconds to a minute, so you show up, and there won't be a long wait to catch your pod to LA or San Francisco.. This is a replacement for planes, faster, less costly, and won't use fossil fuel. It's better to compare it to a plane replacement, than a train... Planes go from point A to point B, they don't stop in the middle.

Have you noticed all of Elons companies involve some type of transportation? Tesla - cars, SpaceX - rockets, Hyperloop (not technically a company yet) - plane replacement. Over on the TMC forum, it's been said that Tesla is the ground transport for the mars colony, Hyperloop is how you'd get from one settlement to the next.. It's all geared to eventually colonize mars

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Planes do stop in the middle, it's called the connection.

Because the pods leave every 30 seconds transfers should only take a few minutes. Are we all in that big a hurry we want to eliminate the possibility of connections to san diego, sacramento, and fresno? That's disenfranchising a lot of people. If the stations are 200 miles apart people can get to them from anywhere using their evs.

 

[evnow]

Because the pods leave every 30 seconds transfers should only take a few minutes. Are we all in that big a hurry we want to eliminate the possibility of connections to san diego, sacramento, and fresno? That's disenfranchising a lot of people. If the stations are 200 miles apart people can get to them from anywhere using their evs.

I think a stop in between would probably work - not sure LA to San Diego is very useful for the money involved. If we start thinking about this as a replacement for air travel - then we know the kind of routes it would make sense. Vancouver to Seattle to Portland to San Francisco to LA ?

 

[GregH]

Have you noticed all of Elons companies involve some type of transportation? Tesla - cars, SpaceX - rockets, Hyperloop (not technically a company yet) - plane replacement. Over on the TMC forum, it's been said that Tesla is the ground transport for the mars colony, Hyperloop is how you'd get from one settlement to the next.. It's all geared to eventually colonize mars

It's brilliant actually.. There's no money in running the hyperloop but to build it you'd need the expertise of companies like.. uhm.. Tesla, SpaceX, Solar City...
Sit back for a few years and let others sweat the details then when the time is right, sell them the hardware.

 

[planet4ever]

I sent emails to my California State Senator and Representative, subject "Where is the future of California transportation?" I discussed the shortcomings of the proposed High Speed Rail, praised the Hypertube concept, and highlighted Elon Musk's credentials. I ended each of the emails like this:

I am convinced that we should listen when Mr. Musk speaks. If he says his system can be built for 1/10th the cost, sell tickets for 1/5th the price, and run 4 to 5 times as fast, it's time to scrap the California High Speed Rail and get to work on a real future.

Incidentally, I didn't mention this in my emails, but in my perhaps naive opinion it would be better to end the tubes at the West Oakland Bart station, saving the cost of the bay crossing and providing excellent access to all parts of the Bay Area.

Ray

 

[Nubo]

Planes do stop in the middle, it's called the connection.

Because the pods leave every 30 seconds transfers should only take a few minutes. Are we all in that big a hurry we want to eliminate the possibility of connections to san diego, sacramento, and fresno? That's disenfranchising a lot of people. If the stations are 200 miles apart people can get to them from anywhere using their evs.

Connections happen once you have a network. I'd start with the 1 nonstop route. If that's successful then it can expand. The trouble with the current HSR is that everybody wants it to do everything, basically guaranteeing that it will end up doing nothing, and enfranchising nobody.

 

[GRA]

I sent emails to my California State Senator and Representative, subject "Where is the future of California transportation?" I discussed the shortcomings of the proposed High Speed Rail, praised the Hypertube concept, and highlighted Elon Musk's credentials. I ended each of the emails like this:

I am convinced that we should listen when Mr. Musk speaks. If he says his system can be built for 1/10th the cost, sell tickets for 1/5th the price, and run 4 to 5 times as fast, it's time to scrap the California High Speed Rail and get to work on a real future.

Incidentally, I didn't mention this in my emails, but in my perhaps naive opinion it would be better to end the tubes at the West Oakland Bart station, saving the cost of the bay crossing and providing excellent access to all parts of the Bay Area.

Ray

I agree that they'd need an East Bay stop, preferably co-located at a BART station, whether or not they go all the way to S.F. I was thinking Dublin might be better as a shorter leg might not make sense, but don't know the technicalities. But Dublin would catch the 880/680/24 traffic corridors, and would work better for South Bay business people who are going to be a major traffic demographic.

Here's the thing, though. What are the odds that HSR and the Hyperloop both get permission to build, especially when an L.A. - S.F. direct Hyperloop would cherry-pick the majority of the traffic and revenue that HSR is depending on for their probably still over-optimistic revenue projections? Hyperloop would have to convince the pols and the people to let them use the I-5 (and I-580? Where's BART going to be, especially if they build the extension to Livermore along it) medians, so where's the benefit to all the people in the Central Valley? The majority of the population may be on the coast, but there's quite a few assembly, congress and senatorial districts in the San Joaquin Valley, so I don't see this working if in competition with HSR.

At a minimum, I'd think they'd need stops to serve Fresno and Bakersfield, and probably Modesto and/or Stockton plus Sacramento. It's about 110 miles from Bakersfield to L.A., and about the same Fresno - Bakersfield and Modesto - Fresno IIRR. this solves the toilet stop issue as well as provides more extensive service. If the S.F. - L.A. trip takes 45-60 minutes instead of 35, is that really a major issue?

 

[planet4ever]

so where's the benefit to all the people in the Central Valley? The majority of the population may be on the coast, but there's quite a few assembly, congress and senatorial districts in the San Joaquin Valley, so I don't see this working if in competition with HSR.

It's my understanding that the sentiment in the Valley is strongly biased against HSR. This area is politically very conservative. They consider a $68 billion government expenditure to be an outrage, and their personal concern is that HSR will be taking away a huge band of valuable farm land. Those assemblymen, state senators, and congressmen are Republicans who would be more than happy to kill HSR.

Ray

 

[GRA]

so where's the benefit to all the people in the Central Valley? The majority of the population may be on the coast, but there's quite a few assembly, congress and senatorial districts in the San Joaquin Valley, so I don't see this working if in competition with HSR.

It's my understanding that the sentiment in the Valley is strongly biased against HSR. This area is politically very conservative. They consider a $68 billion government expenditure to be an outrage, and their personal concern is that HSR will be taking away a huge band of valuable farm land. Those assemblymen, state senators, and congressmen are Republicans who would be more than happy to kill HSR.

Ray

I'm just as outraged at the ridiculousness of the current HSR plans, even though I support the idea - hell, even the head of the HSR commission voted against it, saying something like not this route, built in this order (central valley first???), financed this way, in this time frame. What I voted for in 2008 was not the 2.5 times the initial estimate, 'Train to Nowhere' that we got.

I'd expect those central Valley Republicans to be just as much against Hyperloop, unless it's completely privately financed.