Hybrids 80 mpg??

[asimba2]

I don't care if they came out with 250 mpg gas cars, my interest level is ZERO. I love not burning gas, not buying gas, not hearing and feeling a gas engine and transmission try and sort things out--the smooth surge of all electric power with no gear shifting is the only thing I am interested in anymore. That's a big statement from a car enthusiast such as myself.

+1 on that level of interest but unfortunately, my need is a bit higher than that.

* LEAF not a "buyable" car for me. Range is too short, degradation too fast. (although its pretty slow comparatively speaking in my area) So lease is the only option. For whatever reason, I failed to investigate a higher mileage lease option so only have 15,000 miles to play with

I don't disagree one bit. My wife has a new Acura TSX that we drive on long trips, so that need is fulfilled. We also have an SUV that we need to support our outdoor lifestyle, so the Leaf isn't our only car. I'm a "buy and drive until the wheels falls off" kind of guy, so leasing goes against what I'm used to. When my lease is up in 2017, I would like to buy my next EV, but only if battery degradation is significantly less than it is now.

 

[gbarry42]

[...] I used to have a Skoda Octavia with the 110bhp variable geometry turbo and common rail 1896 tdi. I would commute to work at a steady 52 mph because the engine would sit right on max BMEP at that speed.
[...]
I have serious doubts about the real effect of hybridising an ICE. I guess it works if you have exactly the same driving profile as the test cycles, ...

After reading this and some of the rest, I conclude you are in the UK, and don't have the 70 MPH direct-to-destination kind of driving we're used to in California. Your range is automatically higher if you slow down, and more so if the land is flat, and we see the same thing here in places like Florida. In fact, I see this on traffic jam days.

As to the hybrid, consider what would happen if I designed the computer to keep the engine right on max BMEP. If I didn't need it all, I could shunt the rest off the battery. And if I needed more, I could take it from the battery. Toyota understands this; I'm not too sure about the rest of the crowd. The end result is that anybody can get nearly the same MPG as you without knowing much about mechanics, physics, etc. That's the genius of the hybrid.

By the way, all these hybrid MPG figures are irrelevant. They depend on (1) Battery range, (2) Driving terrain, and (3) Distance. My own results aren't applicable to you, so if I'm waving a number around in public, it doesn't prove anything.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I don't care if they came out with 250 mpg gas cars, my interest level is ZERO. I love not burning gas, not buying gas, not hearing and feeling a gas engine and transmission try and sort things out--the smooth surge of all electric power with no gear shifting is the only thing I am interested in anymore. That's a big statement from a car enthusiast such as myself.

+1 on that level of interest but unfortunately, my need is a bit higher than that.

* LEAF not a "buyable" car for me. Range is too short, degradation too fast. (although its pretty slow comparatively speaking in my area) So lease is the only option. For whatever reason, I failed to investigate a higher mileage lease option so only have 15,000 miles to play with

I don't disagree one bit. My wife has a new Acura TSX that we drive on long trips, so that need is fulfilled. We also have an SUV that we need to support our outdoor lifestyle, so the Leaf isn't our only car. I'm a "buy and drive until the wheels falls off" kind of guy, so leasing goes against what I'm used to. When my lease is up in 2017, I would like to buy my next EV, but only if battery degradation is significantly less than it is now.

ya, what we really need is a decently priced plug in hybrid that will cover all the short trips that Acura is bound to make. but then again, if looking at wants; a network that covers limited range EVs such as the Energi's would also be tops on the list

 

[LeftieBiker]

I don't care if they came out with 250 mpg gas cars, my interest level is ZERO. I love not burning gas, not buying gas, not hearing and feeling a gas engine and transmission try and sort things out--the smooth surge of all electric power with no gear shifting is the only thing I am interested in anymore. That's a big statement from a car enthusiast such as myself.

I may sound like I'm promoting the PIP as a Leaf alternative, but I'm not. I rarely drive our PIP.This is a thread about PHEVs, essentially, so I'm not going to use it to dismiss them!

By the way, all these hybrid MPG figures are irrelevant. They depend on (1) Battery range, (2) Driving terrain, and (3) Distance. My own results aren't applicable to you, so if I'm waving a number around in public, it doesn't prove anything.

That's kind of silly, unless your situation is genuinely unique. It isn't hard to get a typical MPG figure for a PHEV with and without charge, and in low and high speed driving. Hilly terrain also has predictable effects. It's no different from estimating Leaf range figures.

 

[cgaydos]

The Nissan Note 1.5 dci I was given as a courtesy car ... 98 mpg ain't too bad, though.

(Units are AVDP. Divide by 1.2 for USCU mpg. 98mpg AVDP = 82mpg USCU)

...

I have serious doubts about the real effect of hybridising an ICE. I guess it works if you have exactly the same driving profile as the test cycles, but I sit on a mid-distance commute every day and little regen opportunity. In fact, I know the route so well I can drive a regular ICE and get away with any braking at all on occasions for the whole trip, if the lights are favourable. Better never to brake at all than have a regen facility. I cannot remotely see what benefit regen brings if you are simply pottering along a motorway for mile after mile.

Yes, hybrids haven't been adopted much in Europe, and this is a good summary of why. First, if you want really good mileage you'll probably get a car like the Note that is smaller than those available in the U.S. (Ironically, the one really small car that has been available in the US in recent years, the Smartfortwo, has pathetic mileage given its size.) In the US we've been so brainwashed about the need for size for reasons of safety and status that a micro cars just haven't been sold. That might be changing - see the recent success of the Fiat.

Second, the hybrid doesn't add that much to efficiency even under ideal conditions - maybe 10%, as you'll find when making a like-to-like comparison with the same vehicle, non-hybrid, with the same size ICE engine. Usually comparison are made between a non-hybrid ICE that is bigger than the hybrid ICE, thus exaggerating the benefits (for example, a 3.0L Camry to a 2.4L Camry Hybrid). The Prius has such great mileage mostly because the whole car design is optimized for mileage - adding the Prius hybrid system to, say, a Highlander or a Lexus yields relatively little gas savings.

Thus, the UK buyer who is hyper-conscious of petrol prices will choose the smallest car practical for his/her needs. While the UK buyer who can afford a larger, more expensive car isn't likely to invest that extra cash just to get an extra 10% in mileage with a hybrid.

Having said all that I suspect most UK driving would actually be pretty optimal for hybrids because off the motorways you are frequently slowing and accelerating for roundabouts and curves.

 

[rmay635703]

The prius gets about 50 mpg. If they ever get that technology to the point you can get 80 or 90 mpg, would electric cars die. i dont know how doable that is though.

My 2001 Honda insight gets between 80-90mpg in the summer with me driving (peaking as high as 106mpg)

So no a hybrid that gets 80 or 90mpg does not make the EV die or really have any affect at all on the car market.