How should Nissan respond to dropping capacity?

[Herm]

a certain percentage of the remaining capacity.. but who knows under these abnormal high temperature conditions?

 

[palmermd]

How should they respond? Well, we have already several reports of owners who love their Leaf so much they have traded in their purchased cars for new leased cars. Nissan could create a "Leaf loyalty program" where anyone who owns a 2011 Leaf can upgrade to the 2013 model with little cost to the owner. The new vehicle would be a lease instead of a purchase. This allows them to not get into the sketchy capacity warranty issues, but satisfies the owners who are worried about their cars.

I've also heard suggested to just convert the current car to a lease, but I think upgrading the car after two years will make the owners happier as is also addresses some of the other features lacking in the 2011 like the cabin heater, seat heaters and 3.3kW charger.

 

[KJD]

Best idea I have heard yet. Sounds like a win for Nissan and the owner of the car.

Is anyone at Nissan listening? PAY ATTENTION people !!!!!

How should they respond? Well, we have already several reports of owners who love their Leaf so much they have traded in their purchased cars for new leased cars. Nissan could create a "Leaf loyalty program" where anyone who owns a 2011 Leaf can upgrade to the 2013 model with little cost to the owner. The new vehicle would be a lease instead of a purchase. This allows them to not get into the sketchy capacity warranty issues, but satisfies the owners who are worried about their cars.

I've also heard suggested to just convert the current car to a lease, but I think upgrading the car after two years will make the owners happier as is also addresses some of the other features lacking in the 2011 like the cabin heater, seat heaters and 3.3kW charger.

 

[TickTock]

How should they respond? Well, we have already several reports of owners who love their Leaf so much they have traded in their purchased cars for new leased cars. Nissan could create a "Leaf loyalty program" where anyone who owns a 2011 Leaf can upgrade to the 2013 model with little cost to the owner. The new vehicle would be a lease instead of a purchase. This allows them to not get into the sketchy capacity warranty issues, but satisfies the owners who are worried about their cars.

I've also heard suggested to just convert the current car to a lease, but I think upgrading the car after two years will make the owners happier as is also addresses some of the other features lacking in the 2011 like the cabin heater, seat heaters and 3.3kW charger.

+1. Should guarantee a trade-in value equal to an undegraded Leaf.

 

[thankyouOB]

i got a letter from my dealer saying they wanted to buy my Leaf.
but I think that was just one of those routine letters you get from dealers trying to build used stock and suck you in to build the sales figures.

 

[djchrispaul]

I put down $2500 but am fine with that because I had got the $2500 from the California rebate, and will transfer that rebate to the new car, I will not of course ask for another rebate, that's wrong!

Just thinking out loud but is there an official process for transferring the rebate? If there isn't I have no idea if they are keeping track but seems like it might be safer to offer them the $2,500 and apply for the rebate on the new car. I actually am surprised there is the 36 month ownership requirement since AFAIC if the goal is to promote EV ownership then they should not care since the rebate will be factored into the used price.

I'll let you know, I am calling them today to see the best way to handle it

 

[LEAFer]

Best idea I have heard yet. Sounds like a win for Nissan and the owner of the car.

Is anyone at Nissan listening? PAY ATTENTION people !!!!!

How should they respond? Well, we have already several reports of owners who love their Leaf so much they have traded in their purchased cars for new leased cars. Nissan could create a "Leaf loyalty program" where anyone who owns a 2011 Leaf can upgrade to the 2013 model with little cost to the owner. The new vehicle would be a lease instead of a purchase. This allows them to not get into the sketchy capacity warranty issues, but satisfies the owners who are worried about their cars.

I've also heard suggested to just convert the current car to a lease, but I think upgrading the car after two years will make the owners happier as is also addresses some of the other features lacking in the 2011 like the cabin heater, seat heaters and 3.3kW charger.

+1 :!: Otherwise the FFE (compromises & all) will get more of my attention.

 

[edatoakrun]

"palmermd"]How should they respond? Well, we have already several reports of owners who love their Leaf so much they have traded in their purchased cars for new leased cars. Nissan could create a "Leaf loyalty program" where anyone who owns a 2011 Leaf can upgrade to the 2013 model with little cost to the owner...

Well, very high LEAF resale prices, already seem to have made this a reality, at the present time.

The paranoia that seems to be affecting some, causing them to believe that, by 2013, their LEAF may be "worthless" due to its future reduced battery capacity, could be easily remedied by Nissan guaranteeing trade-in/buyback of Leased LEAFs at their LEASE residual value. The only tricky detail would be how Nissan deals with owners who have not used common sense in caring for their own batteries.

The more financial responsibility Nissan accepts for owner's battery care behavior, the more total costs are transferred from those owners who care for their batteries, to those who do not. In terms of factors outside owner's control, such as climate, Should LEAF owners in Minnesota, who receive reduced utility from their LEAFs, due to shorter range in the winter, want to subsidize Arizona LEAF owners, whose climate reduces their own LEAFs utility, by more rapid battery capacity reduction?

However, I think that most current LEAF owners, would still be better off remaining owners, as long as they don't have significant problems with reduced range, since the Lease residual values appears to have been set very conservatively by Nissan, and the chance of owners gaining financially by trading in their 2011-2012s, prior to 2013, seem pretty remote.

As a means of relieving "battery degradation anxiety", guaranteeing future battery replacement costs, including the trade-in allowances for unabused batteries, would, IMO be a far better move, than guaranteeing vehicle trade-in value.

Batteries are not only a normal "wear" item for any BEV, but the most significant unknown factor, in LEAF ownership costs.
The sooner the uncertainty of this cost is removed, the sooner we can factor this into our own costs of ownership.

Obviously, Nissan is using the information it is gathering on current LEAF batteries, including hot climate LEAFs, (however expected or unexpected the results have been) to establish future warranty and battery replacement price policies. But, unless capacity anxiety affects LEAF sales (and there is no evidence of this so far) I can't see any short-term benefit to Nissan in announcing future battery replacement costs.

I would suggest to Nissan, the long term benefits by a relatively early announcement, would do a great deal, to assuage the feelings of many LEAF owners, that Nissan has often shown that it does not give a damn about LEAF owners' concerns.

 

[djchrispaul]

Best idea I have heard yet. Sounds like a win for Nissan and the owner of the car.

Is anyone at Nissan listening? PAY ATTENTION people !!!!!

How should they respond? Well, we have already several reports of owners who love their Leaf so much they have traded in their purchased cars for new leased cars. Nissan could create a "Leaf loyalty program" where anyone who owns a 2011 Leaf can upgrade to the 2013 model with little cost to the owner. The new vehicle would be a lease instead of a purchase. This allows them to not get into the sketchy capacity warranty issues, but satisfies the owners who are worried about their cars.

I've also heard suggested to just convert the current car to a lease, but I think upgrading the car after two years will make the owners happier as is also addresses some of the other features lacking in the 2011 like the cabin heater, seat heaters and 3.3kW charger.

Is this true that many other owners like me have traded in and leased a new model, I thought I was maybe just being a little over cautious but as I am in Palm Springs and the heat has definitely affected my range, I did it for my peace of mind. I was a little surprised my 2011 LEAF SL was only worth $23000 to the dealer with only 4600 miles but somehow I came out ok, loyalty was not necessarily involved because I went to a different dealer to lease the new one.

+1 :!: Otherwise the FFE (compromises & all) will get more of my attention.

 

[RegGuheert]

But, unless capacity anxiety affects LEAF sales (and there is no evidence of this so far)...

Here's some evidence of that:

A friend in Cavecreek, AZ (outside Phoenix) was considering buying a Leaf... In light of recent developments in that area, I talked here out of it and in to buying a Volt instead... She picked it up last night and loves it.

...and more evidence:

I advised a co-worker to buy a Volt also (although as much due to her needs as the heat sensitivity of the Leaf).

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

Excellent idea, they need to announce something like this and do it fast!

How should they respond? Well, we have already several reports of owners who love their Leaf so much they have traded in their purchased cars for new leased cars. Nissan could create a "Leaf loyalty program" where anyone who owns a 2011 Leaf can upgrade to the 2013 model with little cost to the owner. The new vehicle would be a lease instead of a purchase. This allows them to not get into the sketchy capacity warranty issues, but satisfies the owners who are worried about their cars.

I've also heard suggested to just convert the current car to a lease, but I think upgrading the car after two years will make the owners happier as is also addresses some of the other features lacking in the 2011 like the cabin heater, seat heaters and 3.3kW charger.

 

[mkjayakumar]

Two of my friends here who almost leased, pulled back because of the impact of heat on the capacity they learnt from me and also through this forum. They did several test runs, picked their color, was negotiating deals with the dealers when then pulled back. Rightly so.

 

[Stoaty]

Two of my friends here who almost leased, pulled back because of the impact of heat on the capacity they learnt from me and also through this forum. They did several test runs, picked their color, was negotiating deals with the dealers when then pulled back. Rightly so.

Unless they have to have the whole battery capacity during the lease to make the Leaf work for them, I am not sure why they would be shy about leasing. Buying is a different story. What was their thought process?

 

[djchrispaul]

I put down $2500 but am fine with that because I had got the $2500 from the California rebate, and will transfer that rebate to the new car, I will not of course ask for another rebate, that's wrong!

Just thinking out loud but is there an official process for transferring the rebate? If there isn't I have no idea if they are keeping track but seems like it might be safer to offer them the $2,500 and apply for the rebate on the new car. I actually am surprised there is the 36 month ownership requirement since AFAIC if the goal is to promote EV ownership then they should not care since the rebate will be factored into the used price.

I'll let you know, I am calling them today to see the best way to handle it

Ok so the rebate works like this, they will require me to refund a pro rated portion of the original rebate from my 2011 leaf then they will issue a new rebate for the full amount on my new 2012 leased LEAF. Sounds fair to me!

 

[TomT]

The only fly in that ointment is that your original rebate was likely for $5K and the new one would only be for $2.5K... If yours was a later 2011 delivery and you only got $2.5K, then you are golden!

[Ok so the rebate works like this, they will require me to refund a pro rated portion of the original rebate from my 2011 leaf then they will issue a new rebate for the full amount on my new 2012 leased LEAF. Sounds fair to me!

 

[Volusiano]

It's not detrimental but it's useless like you said. And it's a waste of time. I'd rather wasting my time complaining on this forum. At least there's a better chance that potential buyers read my complaint on this forum compared to Nissan wanting to hear my complaint.

I urge you to make the report to Nissan also. It probably won't make any difference, but the time required is minimal. It's the only thing you can do, since the dealers often don't know much, and this customer service is set up specifically for the Leaf. I would also encourage you--after you are told that there are so few reports of this problem--to ask what Nissan will be doing about this rare (abnormal) event. Again, I don't expect this to help, but still think it is worth doing. Imagine if Nissan is getting hundreds of these formal complaints (which may very well happen in the future). I think that would get their attention.

At the urging of Stoaty and Shrink and others on this forum, even though I don't expect much from calling in, I did call in and register my concern with Nissan on this capacity loss issue. The rep who answered my call was Wesley (x457250, same person whom Leafkabob said he spoke to). He didn't give me the response he gave Leafkabob about "Nissan doesn't hear much from users about this". He just asked me where I got my 15% loss figure after the 1 capacity bar loss from, and he said that I should know that Nissan doesn't guarantee only 80% loss after 5 years, that it's only a guideline. I told him yes, I understand that, and I just want to open up a case number to officially lodge my concern with Nissan. So he opened up a case and gave me the case number and that was it.

 

[djchrispaul]

The only fly in that ointment is that your original rebate was likely for $5K and the new one would only be for $2.5K... If yours was a later 2011 delivery and you only got $2.5K, then you are golden!

[Ok so the rebate works like this, they will require me to refund a pro rated portion of the original rebate from my 2011 leaf then they will issue a new rebate for the full amount on my new 2012 leased LEAF. Sounds fair to me!

I'm golden!

 

[Stoaty]

The rep who answered my call was Wesley (x457250, same person whom Leafkabob said he spoke to). He didn't give me the response he gave Leafkabob about "Nissan doesn't hear much from users about this". He just asked me where I got my 15% loss figure after the 1 capacity bar loss from, and he said that I should know that Nissan doesn't guarantee only 80% loss after 5 years, that it's only a guideline.

It seems that Nissan should be able to guarantee a loss of greater than 80% after 5 years in markets such as Phoenix. I see they have abandoned their claim that you will still have 80% in 5 years.

 

[EdmondLeaf]

and he said that I should know that Nissan doesn't guarantee only 80% loss after 5 years, that it's only a guideline.

This was my question and response from Mark Perry, I am completely confused. Never charged to 100%, never QC, never more 3 power bubbles, never VLBW or turtle, shallow battery cycling, not used if outside temp more than 85F, stored in AC garage during summer. I think this qualify as much less than normal use

1:20
Comment From Amir
What is expected battery capacity after 8 years and 100000 miles?

1:20
Mark Perry: Amir...under normal use 70-80% of capacity left

 

[jspearman]

Okay, a week ago I was concerned because my range figures kept going down, down, down. As of this morning I have officially lost my first bar. Garry had told me to expect it any day, since my SOC was just above 79%, and he was right. I'm pretty pissed about this and I will be calling Nissan today to have a case opened. I really hate this, since I love the idea of electric cars and don't want to see them get more bad press, but a car that only had about 80 miles of real-world range to begin with cannot afford to lose this kind of range so quickly. Disappointed.

Called Nissan and talked to Ricky and had him give me a case number.