OrientExpress
Well-known member
4.
OrientExpress said:The issue here is that Nissan apparently knew about this problem and didn't disclose it.
Therein lies the disconnect. Diminished Battery capacity over time is a known characteristic of all batteries, not a problem, as in a manufacturing or design problem, which is what is alluded to here.
Nissan and all manufacturers of EVs know that over time the capacity of the batteries that power their cars will diminish, and are quite transparent about communicating that with the general public. As you know almost as much space in the owners manuals is devoted to this issue as how to wear seat belts and use airbags. It is a issue that Nissan goes above and beyond to communicate and explain to the owners of their cars, because it is unique to EVs.
Can anyone predict with absolute confidence how slowly or rapidly that will occur, no, because there are too many environmental variables to factor in.
These are the facts, and that is that.
As far as I can tell, you are the only one who doesn't see the problem, except Nissan... and no, I do not live in a hot area and don't have a problem myself.OrientExpress said:I also see a lot of speculation, innuendo, armchair quarterbacking, and accusations flying back and forth, but what I don't see is an actual problem.
OrientExpress said:I also see a lot of speculation, innuendo, armchair quarterbacking, and accusations flying back and forth, but what I don't see is an actual problem.
Stoaty said:As far as I can tell, you are the only one who doesn't see the problem, except Nissan... and no, I do not live in a hot area and don't have a problem myself.
OrientExpress said:I also see a lot of speculation, innuendo, armchair quarterbacking, and accusations flying back and forth, but what I don't see is an actual problem.
QueenBee said:Have to remember Nissan is a big corporation and so its hard from them to be completely transparent and up front since that could get them a lot of bad PR for something that turns out to be a minor issue that they can easily fix. I would guess they are waiting to publicly address this until they have all the information/research and a plan.
Nissan, like many Japanese corporations, have a strong tendency to not want to pass bad news up the chain of command. It's just part of their management culture. If there is any silence from Nissan on this issue, it's possible it is for that reason.
With how much reassuring we've gotten from Nissan about the useful life of these packs I expect they are going to do the right thing when it really comes down to it. In the mean time we have to collect as much of our own data and try to have some patience as the people who are actually in the know figure things out. Have to remember Nissan is a big corporation and so its hard from them to be completely transparent and up front since that could get them a lot of bad PR for something that turns out to be a minor issue that they can easily fix. I would guess they are waiting to publicly address this until they have all the information/research and a plan.
I find it hard to believe that Nissan expected this to happen and the people that are sayings it is normal are likely not the engineers on the inside of Nissan.
If we've learned anything from the mostly minor issues people have had with their LEAFS so far Nissan engineers are watching these problems like a hawk. They are continuing to invest lots of engineering into it so I think it's fair to try and be as patient as possible since it's still very early.
OrientExpress said:If there turns out that there is actually an issue, I am confident that Nissan will fix it. In the mean time, I would encourage everyone to take a chill pill and let things work themselves out.
Actually, I bet you'll find lots of takers on that offer. Swapping packs at the dealer is way less than the ~$10K that a new pack would cost. So yes, I'm sure you'll suffer from this "non-issue and innuendo" soon enough.OrientExpress said:shrink said:OrientExpress said:At the end of the day, the LEAFs that are in operation in hot weather (and the others in less harsh environments) all over the world, including Phoenix, continue to operate well.
Yeah, they just don't go as far as similarly aged LEAFs in cooler climates. How about we switch cars or battery packs at the end of the summer this year? I only have 10,000 miles on mine. Sounds like a win-win for you.
sure, come on by, and we will put the cars up on blocks and switch them out.
I really don't get how you can say this isn't an issue?
The loss of a capacity bar isn't anecdotal/from a subjective layperson. It's from the car itself. The behavior is documented in the service manual. The table http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Battery,_Charging_System#Battery_Capacity_Behavior" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; supposedly came from the service manual.OrientExpress said:I really don't get how you can say this isn't an issue?
I can say that because everything that I have seen here completely antidotal, and essentially subjective laypersons interpretation.
If there is an issue, those that are qualified to make that assessment will do so.
And, it's documented by folks who's range has already been shortened. It's not anecdotal when there's actual proof.cwerdna said:The loss of a capacity bar isn't anecdotal/from a subjective layperson. It's from the car itself. The behavior is documented in the service manual. The table http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Battery,_Charging_System#Battery_Capacity_Behavior" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; supposedly came from the service manual.OrientExpress said:I really don't get how you can say this isn't an issue?
I can say that because everything that I have seen here completely antidotal, and essentially subjective laypersons interpretation.
If there is an issue, those that are qualified to make that assessment will do so.
AC reall ?!? . . . . did I miss something ?!?QueenBee said:To add to the speculation I'm sure Nissan is well aware of what's going on and is determining if these cases are real problems and as they are collecting data and researching I'm sure they are planning their strategy on how to respond. I expect a similar response as we got about the initial AC related recall. . . . . . . . . snip
That isn't entirely true, as there are two Leafs reported to have lost 2 bars (=21.25% capacity loss). Granted these are not as solid as the ones reported as happening to forum members, but still something to consider.DaveinOlyWA said:Since no one has yet seen that 20-30% degradation yet, there is not yet a reason for Nissan to act.
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