Hello Dolly! (Towing your LEAF)

[wolfkin73]

In theory there is no problem towing the Leaf on all 4 wheels as a "Toad" behind an RV with the stipulation that the Leaf be left on and in Drive. This will be safe for the motor and electronics, and will have the added side-effect of fully charging the battery by using the motorhome. Once the battery is "full", (or if it is started with a full charge) the Battery ECU will instruct the drive inverter to disable regen until the Leaf is just coasting. As the Leaf discharges slightly over time while still on, the RV will provide the small amount of charge to keep the battery topped off. Just be sure to turn the Leaf off when you stop the RV and remember to start it back up and put it in drive before moving the RV. And of course, you cannot reverse the RV with the Leaf attached, but you should know that already.

This has already been tested by someone, and it is reported to work. (Disclaimer: Not me!)

Effectively it's no different than fully charging your Leaf and starting off the Day at the top of a very big mountain. The Leaf will "think" it's simply rolling down hill. The only one side-effect that can be considered is that the Leaf will accrue mileage while being "Toad". (But so would any car with all 4 wheels on the ground without a driveline disable)

-Phil

I just left on vacation in my RV. I've always flat towed my vehicles before and it is my prefered method. But based on the manual a got a tow dolly and just parked it on there and strapped it down. No problem from NC to FL.
I hope Nissan makes a procedure that will let me flat tow as I agree with Phil. I think Nissan is being either lazy or overly carefull.
Also my motor home gets 8mpg. Doesn't matter if i'm running a 7.5k generator, towing a 7500 boat, a Yukon, a Jeep, a Honda Civic or whatever. So I don't think it matters if the leaf charging while towing, Regen or just sitting on the dolly.
Oh and I can and often do run the Motorhome generator while driving if its hot. The dash air can't cool the whole RV. But the roof air can. They need about 50amps of 115v.

 

[etracing]

I have a dolly and it is not that heavy (it has a handle and I can move it myself) does not take up that much space and will be a lot less wear and tear than on the car. Beside that, where are you going to connect the car up for towing other than a dolly or flat bed?

I agree with you, but the answer to your question is on page 6-14 of the Owners Manual.

Ray

Um..... agreed. I think.... I have the towing photos on my page 6-14.

I was (originally) looking for tips from other people that have done this. The rest of the thread was extra questions....
and some good answers...

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

There was a company called "Remco" that made drive shaft couplings for "toads". I had one of their couplers on a Toyota Previa many years ago. They also made couplers for front wheel drive drive shafts; a buddy of mine has them. You turn the (steering) wheel all the way to the lock and you can reach in and undo this coupler thing that allows the front wheels to spin freely.

It looks like they may have sold off that business, not sure if anyone else picked up on the concept. That would seemingly work for towing a lLeaf four wheels down, assuming you could get a base plate for the tow bar.

 

[TonyWilliams]

where are you going to connect the car up for towing other
than a dolly or flat bed?

Not sure I understand your question. On the pull vehicle, a common 2 inch, or 2 5/16 inch ball would work. Or a Pintle hitch:

For the car, any number of options are possible, and very common in the RV world, like this vehicle mounted Blu Ox:

http://www.blue-ox-towbars.com/tow-bars/vehicle-mounted/acclaim-tow-bar" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You'll need to have a mount fabricated for the LEAF, like this for the Nissan Versa:

http://www.blue-ox-towbars.com/baseplates/blue-ox-bx1845-baseplate" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[TonyWilliams]

There was a company called "Remco" that made drive shaft couplings for "toads". I had one of their couplers on a Toyota Previa many years ago. They also made couplers for front wheel drive drive shafts;

 

[etracing]

where are you going to connect the car up for towing other
than a dolly or flat bed?

Not sure I understand your question. On the pull vehicle, a common 2 inch, or 2 5/16 inch ball would work. Or a Pintle hitch:

For the car, any number of options are possible, and very common in the RV world, like this vehicle mounted Blu Ox:

http://www.blue-ox-towbars.com/tow-bars/vehicle-mounted/acclaim-tow-bar" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You'll need to have a mount fabricated for the LEAF, like this for the Nissan Versa:

http://www.blue-ox-towbars.com/baseplates/blue-ox-bx1845-baseplate" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Interesting... I was not sure ( I had not looked either) that was a way to attach the 4 wheel tow setup
to a LEAF since the only tow point was the single pull tab on the divers side of the car.

Here is our setup for this weekend.

 

[Smidge204]

That's pretty neat, actually, but I don't really care for its location. Gonna get icky over time and might be hard to get at in some situations.

I don't see why a similar coupling couldn't be integrated directly into the gearbox, with a lever (secured with a bolt) under the hood to actuate it. Pop the hood, flip the lever, release the parking brake, off ya go.
=Smidge=

 

[TonyWilliams]

That's pretty neat, actually, but I don't really care for its location. Gonna get icky over time and might be hard to get at in some situations.

I don't see why a similar coupling couldn't be integrated directly into the gearbox, with a lever (secured with a bolt) under the hood to actuate it. Pop the hood, flip the lever, release the parking brake, off ya go.
=Smidge=

Of course it can. Nothing cubic dollars can't solve.

My preferred location is, again, at the gear box on the half shafts. Remote switching. All quite gentlemanly.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

etracing, even if the driveshaft coupling doesn't work out, here's another product you might benefit from:

http://www.hayward-pool.com/prd/In-Ground-Pool-Sanitization-Salt-Chlorination-Aqua-Rite-_10201_10551_13009_-1_13502_13502_I.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[garygid]

One teaspoon per gallon?
Let's see ... 40,000 x 1 tsp ...

 

[aqn]

My preferred location is, again, at the gear box on the half shafts.

Just so there's no confusion: while the transmission ("gear box") and the differential may be one unit (the "transaxle"; I suppose one can potential call this whole deal "the gear box" since it's all one "box"), the half shafts/drive shafts are not connected to the gear box. The drive shafts are connected to the outputs of the differential, whose input is from the gear box.

 

[TonyWilliams]

My preferred location is, again, at the gear box on the half shafts.

Just so there's no confusion: while the transmission ("gear box") and the differential may be one unit (the "transaxle"; I suppose one can potential call this whole deal "the gear box" since it's all one "box"), the half shafts/drive shafts are not connected to the gear box. The drive shafts are connected to the outputs of the differential, whose input is from the gear box.

There is no transmission. No gears are being switched, or moved.

Yes, all one unit. One box, with one drive gear from the propulsion AC motor, one idler (counter gear) and one driven gear. Everything; wheels, half shafts, drive and driven gears, and AC motor, EXCEPT the idler gear, all turn the same direction.

Yes, there is of course a differential gear set in the final drive, and a parking pin assembly in the gear box. And a small amount of a special gear lubricant.

My proposed location is at the gear box output shafts on either side of the gear box, and the (potentially shortened) half shafts would bolt to this unit. The assembly would not move with the suspension.

 

[TomT]

I actually have one of those on my pool... It works very well.

etracing, even if the driveshaft coupling doesn't work out, here's another product you might benefit from:
http://www.hayward-pool.com/prd/In-Ground-Pool-Sanitization-Salt-Chlorination-Aqua-Rite-_10201_10551_13009_-1_13502_13502_I.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

What about locking hubs, like they have on some 4WD vehicles?

 

[TonyWilliams]

What about locking hubs, like they have on some 4WD vehicles?

Like I said above, you have to disconnect the front wheels from the gear box, and lock out hubs are a great solution. There hasn't been lock outs on four wheel drives for a long, long time (maybe heavy duty trucks), and I can't imagine a market big enough to attract a somebody to build a set for the LEAF. Plus, the front wheels would probably need to be changed or modified from the 66.1mm hub to something bigger.

 

[Ingineer]

Solving this mechanically is silly. Especially the lock-out hubs. This would add unsprung mass and really screw up the Leaf's handling and ride.

The other half-shaft disconnect method is going to likely run well over several thousand, and could have unintended consequences.

It would be far easier and cheaper to simply disconnect the motor from the inverter electrically. But, I'm not even sure this is needed, but more research would have to be done first.

Obviously you can be rolling down a hill at high speed and shift into "N" and nothing blows up, but for how long? This also means you'd have to leave the Leaf powered up and in ready. I wouldn't want to try it with the car off, this is where an IGBT gate could leak on and destroy the inverter. (or worse) You also want the cooling system active.

If it's in drive there is no damage going to occur, as the IGBT's will be switching and doing their normal job, with rather low overall currents flowing.

-Phil

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Solving this mechanically is silly. Especially the lock-out hubs. This would add unsprung mass and really screw up the Leaf's handling and ride.

The other half-shaft disconnect method is going to likely run well over several thousand, and could have unintended consequences.

It would be far easier and cheaper to simply disconnect the motor from the inverter electrically. But, I'm not even sure this is needed, but more research would have to be done first.

Obviously you can be rolling down a hill at high speed and shift into "N" and nothing blows up, but for how long? This also means you'd have to leave the Leaf powered up and in ready. I wouldn't want to try it with the car off, this is where an IGBT gate could leak on and destroy the inverter. (or worse) You also want the cooling system active.

If it's in drive there is no damage going to occur, as the IGBT's will be switching and doing their normal job, with rather low overall currents flowing.

-Phil

The Remco drive shaft disconnect wasn't all that expensive but it's a moot point if they are out of business. Towing four wheels down with the car "on" and in drive sounds scary but maybe it would be fine. Would you have constant low level regen while towing? That might not be all bad; you wouldn't notice the drag in a diesel pusher but might in lighter coach. You would accumulate odometer miles while towing, which most toad setups don't do.

So maybe all you need is a blue-ox base plate.

 

[Ingineer]

Take a look at my earlier post in this thread. Bascially, If you started out with a fully charged Leaf, you would have no regen drag. If you start with a lower battery, it would regen slightly in drive, (or more in Eco) and slowly charge the Leaf until it was full, then the drag would go away.

My theory is you can safely tow in Neutral (car must be in Ready though) with no problems, but I'd want to run some tests on the Inverter to check this. You would lose some charge this way, as the Leaf's systems would have a slow draw on the battery. Of course, all you'd have to do is switch to "D" for a few miles. In fact, rigging up a remote shift system and extending LEAFSCAN into the RV would enable you to shift into D or even Eco while descending hills to top off the Leaf! That would be "free" regen as well as helping slow the RV down without needing as much braking. The only mods would be some wiring, and of course the mechanical tow connection to the Leaf. LEAFSCAN would enable you to keep a close eye on the Leaf.

-Phil

 

[TonyWilliams]

In fact, rigging up a remote shift system and extending LEAFSCAN into the RV would enable you to shift into D or even Eco while descending hills to top off the Leaf! That would be "free" regen as well as helping slow the RV down without needing as much braking. The only mods would be some wiring, and of course the mechanical tow connection to the Leaf. LEAFSCAN would enable you to keep a close eye on the Leaf.

-Phil

While I disagree with you about any "bad stuff" with mechanically disconnecting the wheels from the propulsion motor (that technology is many, many decades mature), this idea with LEAFscan is very clever.

 

[garsh]

...this idea with LEAFscan is very clever.

It would be even more clever if LeafScan incorporated a bluetooth connection, instead of requiring a loooong cable to the RV.