Going all the way with solar

[DaveEV]

Software engineers have the logical and procedural talents to undertake a job like this. Friends and hired talent can always tutor you in the mechanical aspects. Besides, four or more hands will work more efficiently than two. . .

Likewise, I'm a software engineer who installed my own system. But I did have help from by brother and friend who have some experience in the industry. The biggest hurdle for me was drawing up the plans and getting them accepted by my local building/electrical department. People who do this for a living obviously have experience which makes things a lot easier.

Doing it yourself does show you how inefficient a lot of the process is. Installing a PV system isn't rocket science and it really should be turned into something as simple as plug-and-play. Standard permit docs. Plug your specific requirements into a wizard and out comes recommended parts and a complete parts list. Click a button and those parts are purchased and delivered to your door. The USA has a long ways to go in this regard, Germany on the other hand has this down and as a result their cost to install solar is much lower than ours.

I'm happy I did the install myself, but now that I'm thinking of adding more PV to my roof, I'm not looking forward to the red-tape to get it done.

 

[mikeEmike]

I also purchased all the materials outright but installed the system myself. ...snip... It is amazing how few people are doing this. ...snip...

I thought installation was hard to do yourself?

Do you have special training that would have made this easier for you? I am a Software Engineer and I think I would be hesitant to install it myself. But maybe it isn't as complicated as I read.

It is not especially "difficult", but it can be "tedious" doing the same thing dozens of times. Like many tasks, installing the roof mounts and racking gets easier with each piece as you become more proficient. Generally speaking, Spanish tiles take more work than composite shingles, but I have not tried the newer no-drill tile hangers. Using micro-inverters, especially some of the newest types, for each panel is electrically simpler than running DC wiring to a single inverter in/on the garage wall, and may inspire fewer problems and questions with some city building & safety departments. There is a material cost cross-over point as the system size increases, however, but shading issues may still favor micro-inverters. A good starting point for information and book sources is Homepower Magazine, http://www.homepower.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

If you are new to PV, designing a system will be the most crucial part, but you can always hire experience in that area -- something which may also help when getting your permit. Lastly, not all state rebates and incentives are available to owners who install their own systems. Some of the state programs require installation by "qualified, certified, licensed, trained, etc.", personnel to ensure the state is getting full value for their investment. As with most projects, research and preparation will pay big dividends.

Software engineers have the logical and procedural talents to undertake a job like this. Friends and hired talent can always tutor you in the mechanical aspects. Besides, four or more hands will work more efficiently than two. . .

Hey thait84, I'm a software engineer and I was able to install my own system. I did a lot of research before taking this on. I don't have any special skills that made me more qualified than anyone else with the motivation and enthusiasm to install their own system, other than basic handyman skills and being comfortable with roofing and electrical work. I worked with a vendor in the SoCal area that helped me design my system (http://www.thatsolarguy.com) and sold me a customized kit with all the parts I needed. They provided great sales and installation support for DIYers. They also do installations if you change your mind. I worked with Jeff (the owner) and Chad. What helped me the most was setting aside enough time to do this correctly. I didn't rush it. I stopped and did additional research if I ran into anything I wasn't sure about. It took me about 80 hours spread over a month's time to install a 2kW system, but if I did again, it would probably take me less than 40. I will actually be adding another 3kW system to offset the rest of my bill, and I will be using TSG again. Feel free to PM me if you'd like to check out my system (not sure where you are in LA, but I live in Granada Hills) or if you have any questions that I can answer. I think if you see it up close, it's not as intimidating as you might think...then again, it might be, but at least you'll have a better idea of what you're in for if you decide to install it yourself.

 

[mikeEmike]

Software engineers have the logical and procedural talents to undertake a job like this. Friends and hired talent can always tutor you in the mechanical aspects. Besides, four or more hands will work more efficiently than two. . .

Likewise, I'm a software engineer who installed my own system. But I did have help from by brother and friend who have some experience in the industry. The biggest hurdle for me was drawing up the plans and getting them accepted by my local building/electrical department. People who do this for a living obviously have experience which makes things a lot easier.

Doing it yourself does show you how inefficient a lot of the process is. Installing a PV system isn't rocket science and it really should be turned into something as simple as plug-and-play. Standard permit docs. Plug your specific requirements into a wizard and out comes recommended parts and a complete parts list. Click a button and those parts are purchased and delivered to your door. The USA has a long ways to go in this regard, Germany on the other hand has this down and as a result their cost to install solar is much lower than ours.

I'm happy I did the install myself, but now that I'm thinking of adding more PV to my roof, I'm not looking forward to the red-tape to get it done.

For me, the biggest hurdle was working with the local utility (DWP). It took me three months just to get my rebate application approved. It took a whole month to get an inspector out to approve the installation (in which time I could NOT use the system). Once it did get inspected and passed, it took an additional three months to get the rebate check.

 

[LEAFfan]

Our Utility paid a rebate of $2.15/W up to 5kW, but only with a certified and licensed installer. Now that rebate is only 25 cents.

 

[mikeEmike]

Our Utility paid a rebate of $2.15/W up to 5kW, but only with a certified and licensed installer. Now that rebate is only 25 cents.

LA DWP just dropped to $1.05/W, down from $4.54/W originally, but they allow you to install your own system if you're the home owner.

 

[DaveEV]

I'm a software engineer and I was able to install my own system. I did a lot of research before taking this on.

Pretty amazing how many software engineers here have either installed their own or are considering to install their own PV system to go with their LEAF. I agree - research is key, can never do too much and plan on it taking quite a bit of time!

Our Utility paid a rebate of $2.15/W up to 5kW, but only with a certified and licensed installer. Now that rebate is only 25 cents.

LA DWP just dropped to $1.05/W, down from $4.54/W originally, but they allow you to install your own system if you're the home owner.

No more California rebate here in San Diego (SDGE/CCSE) region, and the other areas are also quickly running out - down to the last 2 tiers at $0.20-0.25 / CEC-AC watt. It's all good, though - PV prices have come down more than enough to compensate over the course of the rebate program.

$1.05/W is enough to pay for the panels themselves - couple with the federal tax credit a self-installed system in LADWP should be nearly free.

 

[lukati]

If you have the space, consider doing a DIY ground mounted installation. Handling bulky solar panels is much easier and safer on the ground than on the roof. There are no roof leakage worries and grounding the system is also easier. I installed a 2 kW version of this system
http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/PV/DougEnphase/DougEnphase.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
with no issues.

Have a look at the different projects on http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/PV/pv.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; to get an idea of what is involved in installing your own system (ground or roof).

 

[Viktor]

So, coming from CO with no utilities rebates - are U saying that I can afford to built my own solar system and have reasonable return on my investment? I was under impression that china made panels were banned to sell in the USA and the prices of panels were suppose to go up?
Looking at that nice on the ground setup I wonder - can I build a "roof" from solar panes over my oversized porch? Have concrete shingles and was told back few years that I would have to have my shingles replaced with asphalt and then have panels installed on top of the asphalt shingles - is that a must?

 

[HighDesertDriver]

So, coming from CO with no utilities rebates - are U saying that I can afford to built my own solar system and have reasonable return on my investment? I was under impression that china made panels were banned to sell in the USA and the prices of panels were suppose to go up?
Looking at that nice on the ground setup I wonder - can I build a "roof" from solar panes over my oversized porch? Have concrete shingles and was told back few years that I would have to have my shingles replaced with asphalt and then have panels installed on top of the asphalt shingles - is that a must?

There are lots of Chinese panels available. Some interests contend they are unfairly subsidized by their gov't, but that should be another thread. Many people have constructed patio covers from panels, some with specialized racking structures which organize and hide the wiring clutter. Sanyo (I think) even produces a panel for this purpose which absorbs from both sides, benefiting from reflected light. Some visible light also comes through, reducing some of the "cave" effect of a solid cover.

One benefit of ground mounts and some low patio installations is ease of snow removal. Especially on multi-story homes, we just have to wait for it to warm up enough for the snow to slide off on its own.

 

[Viktor]

Trying to do my own research, but is there reputable online retailer for the panels? One stop shop?

 

[HighDesertDriver]

Trying to do my own research, but is there reputable online retailer for the panels? One stop shop?

Two that I have dealt with - and have dealt fairly with me - are http://www.altestore.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and http://www.ecodirect.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. They are on opposite coasts; further research may turn up someone closer to you. PM if you have specific questions. I'll be glad to try to help.

 

[FairwoodRed]

Trying to do my own research, but is there reputable online retailer for the panels? One stop shop?

I put together several of the solar research websites that I saved in my favorites:

http://www.dmsolar.com/solar-gridtie-system.html is where I bought my solar panels and micro-inverters from.

http://www.millionsolarroofs.com/prosolarsupportrail136qty1r-136.aspx is where I bought my racking from.

Both of those guys offer pre-packaged complete systems, but you might want to customize it to fit your install.

http://www.gosolarcalifornia.ca.gov/equipment/pv_modules.php is a California governmental website that independently tests solar panels and provides real world output ratings. PTC is the number to focus on.

http://www.ecobusinesslinks.com/surveys/free-solar-panel-price-survey/ is a listing of cheap solar panels and where to get them. This list focuses on a low price and you may or may not want to buy from any particular vendor, but it is a good reference point for how low solar prices are on any given day.

https://homepower.com/ seems to be about a high level discussion of alternative energy sources, but I found it to be lacking in serious technical meat. It remains a good starting point for an average homeowner.

http://solarprofessional.com/home/ is a magazine dedicated to professional solar system installers. They have excellent discussions on many technical aspects of designing and installing solar systems like: lag bolt specifications and selections, pending NEC rule changes and their likely impact, & how to consider all options for interconnection with the existing electrical service. This was by far the best resource that I used for my installation and they have all of thier back issues available online.

http://we-llc.com/weeb.html is the manufacturer’s page for WEEB’s, a grounding washer that will make grounding you system much easier. WEEB’s are retailed from many vendors.

http://www.dsireusa.org/ is a federal database of virtually all incentives that are available for just about any location in the US.

http://www.nrel.gov/rredc/pvwatts/grid.html is a federal webapp that uses historical weather information, and inputs from you, to estimate how much power a given solar system could generate.

Hope this helps.

 

[Viktor]

Awesome! Thanx - now I have some serious reading to do :shock:

 

[pchilds]

I bought from solarsystemsusa.
http://www.solarsystemsusa.net/

 

[thait84]

Thanks for all the information! That is surprising that there are so many Software people here. But I guess we are nerdy and we love all this data and research that an electric car provides.

I will have to take a closer look at everything since it is definitely a DIY-able thing.

 

[cdherman]

Thanks for all the information! That is surprising that there are so many Software people here. But I guess we are nerdy and we love all this data and research that an electric car provides.

I will have to take a closer look at everything since it is definitely a DIY-able thing.

This is totally DIYable as you say, BUT beware that many inspectors and electrical contractors remain very wary of the technology and when they hear that you are DIYing, they are going to look for every reason to refuse the instal. And without complete buy in from your local authorities, you'll not get the utility to install the grid tie meter.

And, many conventional "spnning disk" meters will totally HOSE you if you do the install without a proper grid tie meter from your local utility. The spinning disk counts rotations when it comes to the data upload that the utility uses to measure your consumption (unless you have a real old fashioned one, that reads the meter manually). So those rotations you are charged for -- you would get CHARGED for very kwh you put back in the grid.

Anyhow, beware....

On the otherhand, if you can find an electrician that will do the wiring and your job is to put up the panels and infrastructure, you might save a bundle that way.... Just depends who you can find. But the fellow interfacing with the inspector and electric utility has got to know the right words or you may be hosed....

 

[QueenBee]

Thanks for all the information! That is surprising that there are so many Software people here. But I guess we are nerdy and we love all this data and research that an electric car provides.

I will have to take a closer look at everything since it is definitely a DIY-able thing.

This is totally DIYable as you say, BUT beware that many inspectors and electrical contractors remain very wary of the technology and when they hear that you are DIYing, they are going to look for every reason to refuse the instal. And without complete buy in from your local authorities, you'll not get the utility to install the grid tie meter.

And, many conventional "spnning disk" meters will totally HOSE you if you do the install without a proper grid tie meter from your local utility. The spinning disk counts rotations when it comes to the data upload that the utility uses to measure your consumption (unless you have a real old fashioned one, that reads the meter manually). So those rotations you are charged for -- you would get CHARGED for very kwh you put back in the grid.

Anyhow, beware....

On the otherhand, if you can find an electrician that will do the wiring and your job is to put up the panels and infrastructure, you might save a bundle that way.... Just depends who you can find. But the fellow interfacing with the inspector and electric utility has got to know the right words or you may be hosed....

The spinning disk counting against thing was fun for the month that between when I went live and the new meter got installed.

My experience with my local city was very very good. They had no issue with DIY and were very helpful along the way. It probably helped that I first met the electrical inspector for my Blink EVSE install and then again when I did a "DIY" panel replacement. I submitted excellent documentation with the permit and attempted to follow all the guidelines I was aware of. Inspection went great except for in one place I used a nipple that didn't have a factory end so it needed a plastic bushing If they understand that you are trying to do a high quality and then they see a high quality job I'd expect them to be good to work with. My DIY was so great because I did all the solar PV research/etc. and then had family roofers do the mounting and then had an electrician friend help with the wiring. I was the only one who knew about solar PV but having capable people helping was the key to my success.

 

[Viktor]

So, can someone double check my calculations please. We use just over 10kwh per year. Live in Denver where medium amount of solar hours per day is 4.87. Based upon our current use I would need 7.5kw solar panel to offset my electric bill 100%. We just added 1 Leaf - so we need another 4.2 kwh per year (12000 miles per year x 0.35 miles per kw) - additional 3.2 kw panel. So I would need approximately 11 kw system? I would need to put it at approximately 10-15 degree angle to maximize my yearly exposure.
Sounds about right?
Do any of you guys use mechanical or electrical angulation device to maximize your exposure throughout the year? If so - which one?
Also, for the solar panel over the south facing patio I would like to use semi-transparent panels. I like Sanyo Hit ones but those are 4$ per watt. Can someone suggest another manufacturer that would help me accomplish my goal of providing shade under the solar panels without completely blocking the sun?

 

[lukati]

I would need to put it at approximately 10-15 degree angle to maximize my yearly exposure.
Sounds about right?

That doesn't sound right. You can estimate your solar harvest for different orientations using this tool.
http://rredc.nrel.gov/solar/calculators/PVWATTS/version1/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Viktor]

Well - the optimum for summer is 12.5, for the winter - 59.6 - being on top of the porch I just think it would look weird at 60 degrees angulation. Besides - I will loose a lot of shade with such a high angle.