Future Leaf Range??

[bowthom]

Hello,
I get it though, they have been announcing battery tech improvements with regularity. A couple years ago they said an order of magnitude improvement in lithium saturation of the cathode / anode was now possible because of a new manufacturing process that was relatively cheap and easy. I wonder what happened to that?

I am looking forward to "someday" being able to replace my 11 Leaf batt with a much improved unit.

 

[ObjetDart]

I wonder what happened to that?

If I had $10 for every "significant advance" in battery tech that vanished somewhere between the lab and the consumer, I could buy a Tesla.

 

[DanCar]

Meh. If the distance you can travel while moving at a constant speed on level ground has not improved, then in my book the range of the car has not increased. The regen and heater efficiency improvements are nice of course but not usually what people mean when they ask if the range has increased, and stating that the range has increased based on that is misleading.

Or maybe I'm just grumpy today.

I believe the initial marketing for the Leaf was that it was a city car or urban car. Which implies it wasn't meant for highway driving.

 

[TonyWilliams]

... I believe the initial marketing for the Leaf was that it was a city car or urban car. Which implies it wasn't meant for highway driving.

I can travel the freeway within about a mile of my house and go the entire range of the LEAF without leaving the city of San Diego. If it "wasn't meant for the highway", it probably wouldn't need to go 150km/93mph, eh?

 

[smkettner]

Thanks for the reply guys/gals!

Nissan is and has been providing small improvements, 3.3kw on board charger to 6.6kw available onboard charger. the range on the 2013 Leaf's increased by about 10 miles.

In New England the L2 chargers are available... The only problem is that you won't find too many of them. Leaf owners have mentioned that they have to litterally "stock/" the local cahrging spot day and night and wait for one to free up.

If Nissan can't provide the proper infrasturcture in New England, how can CT go "green" ?

As a sales consultant: I will be able to overcome my current and future customer's range anxiety if
#1. Nissan increases the range by another 50-100 miles keeping MSRP around or no more than 50K.
# 2. Nissan helps the state with more L2 charging stations.
#3. If we can get some L3 charging stations period. ( The state of CT has only two L3)

Primary charging will be at home for the foreseeable future. This is actually one of the prime benefits of EVs.
Second prime spot will be at work so ask your boss, not Nissan.

 

[apurena1]

One in Milford and one right off i95 in Darien. Really? only for Tesla? Don't they sell some sort of plug in adaptor for Leaf?
Yes, Nissan North America has benn putting pressure on the dealerships to install a L3 Charging station. The Charging station Nissan wants will cost the dealership around $20,000.00
The Cost to install the L3 is not the issue with dealers (or with mine)... The cost to suply on-demand electricity (420/440) to these vehicles is the issue.

Where in CT are there two L3 stations? The ones in Milford and Darien are for Tesla vehicles only. They use a different plug than the Leaf.

Has your dealership been asked to install a L3 by Nissan, or been offered one by Nissan?

 

[DanCar]

... I believe the initial marketing for the Leaf was that it was a city car or urban car. Which implies it wasn't meant for highway driving.

I can travel the freeway within about a mile of my house and go the entire range of the LEAF without leaving the city of San Diego. If it "wasn't meant for the highway", it probably wouldn't need to go 150km/93mph, eh?

Perhaps I should have said wasn't intended for primarily highway. Thus the improved regenerative breaking is very relevant. In addition there are few freeways were the brakes aren't used.

 

[NYLEAF]

One in Milford and one right off i95 in Darien. Really? only for Tesla? Don't they sell some sort of plug in adaptor for Leaf?
Yes, Nissan North America has benn putting pressure on the dealerships to install a L3 Charging station. The Charging station Nissan wants will cost the dealership around $20,000.00
The Cost to install the L3 is not the issue with dealers (or with mine)... The cost to suply on-demand electricity (420/440) to these vehicles is the issue.

Where in CT are there two L3 stations? The ones in Milford and Darien are for Tesla vehicles only. They use a different plug than the Leaf.

Has your dealership been asked to install a L3 by Nissan, or been offered one by Nissan?

There is no adapter for a Leaf to use a Tesla Supercharger, and I highly doubt there ever will be one. Tesla installs these (very expensive) stations primarily as a marketing tool to help sell more of their cars. The stations are free for any Tesla driver to use (so long as they have a Supercharger-capable car). If someone were to create an unauthorized adapter and plug a Leaf into a Supercharger, the other Tesla drivers that would surely be present at the Supercharger would most certainly call Tesla (and maybe even the police) and report it as theft. I really hope you haven't been telling your Leaf customers that they can Quick Charge on I95!

As someone who is within driving range of your dealership, I really hope you do install a L3 station. I would certainly come up and use it, even if you charged a (reasonable) fee for its use.

 

[apurena1]

One in Milford and one right off i95 in Darien. Really? only for Tesla? Don't they sell some sort of plug in adaptor for Leaf?
Yes, Nissan North America has benn putting pressure on the dealerships to install a L3 Charging station. The Charging station Nissan wants will cost the dealership around $20,000.00
The Cost to install the L3 is not the issue with dealers (or with mine)... The cost to suply on-demand electricity (420/440) to these vehicles is the issue.

Where in CT are there two L3 stations? The ones in Milford and Darien are for Tesla vehicles only. They use a different plug than the Leaf.

Has your dealership been asked to install a L3 by Nissan, or been offered one by Nissan?

I really hope you haven't been telling your Leaf customers that they can Quick Charge on I95!

As someone who is within driving range of your dealership, I really hope you do install a L3 station. I would certainly come up and use it, even if you charged a (reasonable) fee for its use.

We do not speak of outside L3/L2 chargers to our customers outside of what is available on the carwings telematics service. As a dealeership and a consultant, the last thing we want is providing false or inacurate information to our buyers.

I really hope we can install the L3 charger in our dealership in the near future. Hopefully NNA will step up and help so the dealerships.

 

[Petecomp1]

Interesting discussion! This is a topic near and dear to my heart. The potential range increase exists NOW, except for safety and legal concerns. Pick up any Radio Control Modelers magazine and you will see ads for Lithium-Polymer batteries with about 2-3 times the energy density of the current Leaf battery pack, at the same size and weight. Problem is, they sometimes explode, so must be charged in special pouches. Not so good if used in a car I reckon. One explosion would kill the electric car.
I see that testing is in progress on several new battery technologies. Given the potential payoff for whoever is first to market with a safe super-battery, I'd be surprised if we don't hear something substantial by 2015 or so. Imagine a 240-mile Leaf with a 10-year battery life - at today's same price. That's a tantalizing thought for me - and also for Carlos Ghosn I think!

 

[DanCar]

Interesting discussion! This is a topic near and dear to my heart. The potential range increase exists NOW, except for safety and legal concerns. Pick up any Radio Control Modelers magazine and you will see ads for Lithium-Polymer batteries with about 2-3 times the energy density of the current Leaf battery pack, at the same size and weight. Problem is, they sometimes explode, so must be charged in special pouches. Not so good if used in a car I reckon. One explosion would kill the electric car.
I see that testing is in progress on several new battery technologies. Given the potential payoff for whoever is first to market with a safe super-battery, I'd be surprised if we don't hear something substantial by 2015 or so. Imagine a 240-mile Leaf with a 10-year battery life - at today's same price. That's a tantalizing thought for me - and also for Carlos Ghosn I think!

The government is spending millions if not billions researching this topic. Safety will be solved by packaging the batteries in innovative ways. Tesla has patents on this. Examples:
1. Fire retardant between cells.
2. Eject cells if they short. Will minimize damage caused by fire.
3. Space the cells out so that one short doesn't ignite another.

Higher battery energy density, given everything else is the same, means more explosive and or greater risk of fire. So it is a two edged sword.
For the long term I prefer the way Tesla is doing it, risking higher energy densities, versus the other automakers who are taking a low density low risk approach. Unfortunately Tesla is paying the price of that risk now, but for the long term they will solve it.

 

[RonDawg]

We do not speak of outside L3/L2 chargers to our customers outside of what is available on the carwings telematics service. As a dealeership and a consultant, the last thing we want is providing false or inacurate information to our buyers.

Unfortunately Nissan's CarWings service is not exactly the pillar of accuracy and completeness either when it comes to public charging stations. Someone recently posted their disappointment at CarWings directing them to a SoCal Nissan dealer for a charge, only to get there and find out the dealership had gone out of business! CarWings also neglects to mention a lot of charging stations that are in existence.

PlugShare is far more helpful in finding a nearby public charging station than CarWings.

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
Ditto re: CarWings on the car. Too clunky and not w/necessarily complete nor accurate info. PlugShare is generally a better bet and less clunky, for me.

I posted about an error at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=324173#p324173" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and gave up trying to figure out how to report it online.

 

[NYLEAF]

We do not speak of outside L3/L2 chargers to our customers outside of what is available on the carwings telematics service. As a dealeership and a consultant, the last thing we want is providing false or inacurate information to our buyers.

I really hope we can install the L3 charger in our dealership in the near future. Hopefully NNA will step up and help so the dealerships.

I hope you didn't take offense to my comments. I'm glad to hear that your dealership is committed to providing your customers with accurate information. Truth be told, I think the vast majority of Leaf drivers on this forum feel as though their Nissan salespeople were, at best, misinformed on the Leaf, and, at worst, outright lied about certain things. Many of us had dealership employees tell us that the car could travel 100 miles on a charge, that the car could charge in 30 minutes (which is somewhat true, but only if a Quick Charger exists), and that there are Quick Chargers all over the place. My salesperson was very adamant that his dealership has a quick charger in the parking lot. That wasn't true 2 years ago when he told me, and it's still not true today.

So, it's nice to see Nissan dealers on the forum, learning the correct information about the car. Thanks for being here and participating. Keep pushing for that L3, it'll get used!

PS. To echo what others have said, you are better off showing your customers the iPhone app "PlugShare", or the web version at PlugShare.com. It shows way more stations than CarWings, and it allows people to post photos & reviews which are way more helpful than what CarWings has. CarWings is very outdated and there's no way to see if stations are working or not. People can even post their home stations on PlugShare if they're willing to let strangers use it.

 

[cwerdna]

PS. To echo what others have said, you are better off showing your customers the iPhone app "PlugShare", or the web version at PlugShare.com. It shows way more stations than CarWings, and it allows people to post photos & reviews which are way more helpful than what CarWings has. CarWings is very outdated and there's no way to see if stations are working or not. People can even post their home stations on PlugShare if they're willing to let strangers use it.

Yep. Recent example was at http://www.plugshare.com/?location=7989" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Users were able to post a picture of the sign (I did that) and warnings showing the "campus" would be closed 8/31/13 to 9/2/13, likely making the EVSEs in the parking lot unreachable.

Sure enough, the parking lot was closed for some construction, resurfacing, I think.

Wanna see that in CarWings? Ha!

 

[RonDawg]

It's more than just temporary closures and the ability to know if a charging station is occupied or broken that separates PlugShare from CarWings. PlugShare users can point out things about the charging station that potential users will need to know. For example, an EVSE may require a membership fob and/or a fee. Or the EVSE is free but you have to pay to enter the lot or garage where it is located.

I posted info in PlugShare about new charging stations at the Metro Gold Line station at Pasadena/Sierra Madre Villa and put instructions on how to find them. There is NO signage as you enter the garage and the EVSE's are hidden away in an area that most users of that garage wouldn't know existed. AFAIK CarWings does not know of this charging station's existence and even if it did it it likely will not tell you how to find them.

 

[ObjetDart]

Or the EVSE is free but you have to pay to enter the lot or garage where it is located.

Or my personal favorite, the EVSE is Blink (not free) AND it's in a for-pay parking lot, in an area of town where there is plenty of free parking around. So you get to pay not once but twice for the ability to charge. Thanks, but no thanks, Blink.

 

[jsongster]

Thanks for the reply guys/gals!

Nissan is and has been providing small improvements, 3.3kw on board charger to 6.6kw available onboard charger. the range on the 2013 Leaf's increased by about 10 miles.

In New England the L2 chargers are available... The only problem is that you won't find too many of them. Leaf owners have mentioned that they have to litterally "stock/" the local cahrging spot day and night and wait for one to free up.

If Nissan can't provide the proper infrasturcture in New England, how can CT go "green" ?

As a sales consultant: I will be able to overcome my current and future customer's range anxiety if
#1. Nissan increases the range by another 50-100 miles keeping MSRP around or no more than 50K.
# 2. Nissan helps the state with more L2 charging stations.
#3. If we can get some L3 charging stations period. ( The state of CT has only two L3)

Make sure that your dealership adds a 24/7 available 480 Lv 3 DC QC which in some cases eliminates the need for a home Lv 2... for folks who do very little driving... top up with 120v day to day and punch it back to 80 when the day to day requires it. Use a key fob that you give to leaf owners or sell them on a yearly basis. $50 or something...

 

[smkettner]

Received a survey yesterday and it had a few questions about how much extra would I pay to have more range.
Maybe someone is getting the message?

Survey went in the shreader :|

 

[pkulak]

Survey went in the shreader :|

What???