mhigley said:
I can't imagine. There was recent news in my 'backwater' neck of the woods that there would be ~100 new charging stations installed around the area. This was 3 weeks after i bought and if that didnt just make my day...
FOX NEWS just said Nissan is moving away from electric cars
- Thread starter mhigley
- Start date
Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:
I can't imagine. There was recent news in my 'backwater' neck of the woods that there would be ~100 new charging stations installed around the area. This was 3 weeks after i bought and if that didnt just make my day...
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
smkettner said:
not sure I can classify ANY H car as being "in production" has any of them moved beyond the test bed stage?
other than So Cal, where can you fuel your H? not finding very reliable #'s here but it would appear that there are less than 50 on the road in the US
ya, i think "production" is a bit ambitious
**edit** well guess it *might* hit production status in 2018...from wiki
WetEV
Well-known member
Train said:
Longer term, gasoline cars are dead. Rising costs of oil extraction, climate change, falling cost of batteries. Dead.
Short term, the current most affordable way to build a car right now is a hybrid. If you want to skate to where the puck is right now, that is where to go.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
Train said:
so tell me, what car do you consider to be "mainstream?"
because I can shoot it down in flames. would be an easy thing to do. there is no "mainstream" car or even a type of car. no matter what you buy, there is at least 10 other buyers who rejected the category of your choice.
EVs are a niche. dont think ANYONE disputes that. They have pluses and minuses just like any other car sold in the world and they ALL have minuses.
waiting for your reply
Nubo
Well-known member
Train said:
First of all, there has long been a market for $90,000 four-door sedans. Whether or not they make sense to you or me, people buy them.
They buy them because of perceived value of performance, quality, luxury, and convenience.
The Tesla brings certain quantifiable advantages in that realm. Performance is great, and by its nature an electric drivetrain provides the kind of quiet and smooth operation that is even above and beyond what this demographic has come to expect in "luxury cars". Not having to stop for gas is another luxury that will be highly prized.
Without belaboring the obvious fact that range limitations mean these cars are not suited to ALL uses, I believe that a significant number of buyers are going to be pleasantly surprised at just how convenient and "luxurious" an EV can be, and are going to prefer them. I believe these cars are going to become MORE desirable for this market as time goes on, not less. And the economic premium for the batteries makes up a smaller percentage of the total price in this market segment.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
a report (very good read) released in March 2012 examines the future of transportation and states that the lower 90% income wise spent about 14% of their income on transporation (2nd only to housing) and the upper 10% spent 7%. well the upper 10% made MUCH more than double the income of the lower 90% and that is because they have a tendency to buy the more expensive car. now, its not a $90,000 car per se but the average price they paid is $65,000. the 90 percenters? $29,000.
so there is a pretty large difference here.
http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/economic-policy/Documents/20120323InfrastructureReport.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
so there is a pretty large difference here.
http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/economic-policy/Documents/20120323InfrastructureReport.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I think the problem is that they haven't found their niche. People who need a car for local driving or commuting and who can charge at home might be a niche market but it's a big niche. I don't think that EVs have begun to penetrate even a niche market. Heck they haven't significantly penetrated homes with solar systems.DaveinOlyWA said:
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
SanDust said:
they havent and that has a lot to do with misleading articles, misconceptions, etc. that will cause the niche to be much slower in forming since it will be mostly word of mouth and even that is complicated by people getting into EVs with misconceptions leaning the other way and being disappointed.
EVs are very much still in the developing stage and are getting better by the minute which is why I will be leasing only for a while. now, the temptation to purchase my current lease at $15,000 was pretty strong but the promise of EVs under $30,000 with 50% more range is probably going to more than i can resist
Battery cars are no more efficient than ten years ago when the dropped of the market. Car makers came up with the hybrids to keep the environmental lobby happy. They need to make the range longer like Tesla and affordable for the masses to embrace them. Not buying gas is not sticking it to the oil companies. You are hurting your local, state and federal governments who have levied surcharges on the gas to bring in revenues. Who cares, they flush it down the drain anyway. Our sales rep told us that 2013 will have fewer rebates so they will cost more to own. He said Nissan felt that they were giving the SL's away to cheaply. If it were to cost more we would not have leased one. High mileage gasoline cars are more cost effective in the long run.
thankyouOB
Well-known member
I see more LEAFS these days.
I wouldnt say it was a flood. Obviously these folks dont watch Hannity and Van Sustern or go to the no-spin zone.
and who reads Train, anyway. He has been on my BLOTTED OUT list for more than a year.
I wouldnt say it was a flood. Obviously these folks dont watch Hannity and Van Sustern or go to the no-spin zone.
and who reads Train, anyway. He has been on my BLOTTED OUT list for more than a year.
Luft
Well-known member
gergg said:
Why should we look only at news organizations with a critical eye? Shouldn't we also look at Fox News with a critical eye?
jopickens
Well-known member
Side question (I've googled quite a bit, coming up with nothing, or I obviously wouldn't ask...)
I have a friend (lives in TN near the plant that is now producing the 2013 LEAF) that supposedly heard from a Nissan rep. that no matter if you buy or lease, in the fine print, Nissan still retains ownership of the lithium-ion battery???
I have a friend (lives in TN near the plant that is now producing the 2013 LEAF) that supposedly heard from a Nissan rep. that no matter if you buy or lease, in the fine print, Nissan still retains ownership of the lithium-ion battery???
jopickens said:
I find that incredibly difficult to believe. But I'm willing to entertain the notion if the corresponding text in my sales contract can be pointed out to me!
jopickens
Well-known member
BUMP - anyone else heard of this?
RegGuheert
Well-known member
No, and I don't buy it. We purchased our LEAF outright. There was no verbiage in any of the materials that indicated that the battery was not part of the purchase.jopickens said:
My condolences in advance to the family members of any Nissan employee who comes to get "their" battery back!
ERG4ALL
Well-known member
I have seen a few LEAFs and I agree with the poster that mentioned word-of-mouth to help establish the niche market. As long as the buyer/leaser understand the car and their driving habits and range issues are met, there is no reason the niche should not establish itself. When we first took the test drive in the LEAF over two years ago we took along another couple. They have now ridden in our LEAF on several occasions and are contemplating the 2014 model versus buying our "known" LEAF when our lease is up in 2014. They also have followed us into solar panels on their house and are thrilled with them. Now they cannot understand why anyone wouldn't do the same. Experiences of early adopters that understand the technologies and use them accordingly can do a great deal for the renewables movement if they will just share that information.
kentuckyleaf
Well-known member
I agree it is "all news" that is bending the EV story negative. In Feb sweeps, one of our local TV stations talked about hypermiling and how awesome it was to get 80 mpg or more. Well in our Leaf, we can get 180 mpg or better (our electric cost to go 180 miles vs. the cost of a gallon of gas) Do we hear anything positive about the Leaf during sweeps? NO. It is nearly all news that gets the EV story wrong, Fox is just a little more gleeful when they bend the story.
SierraQ
Well-known member
thankyouOB said:
Well I enjoy owning a Leaf and I also enjoy watching those shows. So why is it "obvious?" Are conservative-leaning people automatically EV-haters? I don't get that and there are plenty of others on this forum that fall outside that generalization I think.
As for Train's comments I think the part about it being a niche car is absolutely correct but the Tesla is a bad example...
Train said:
So this is basically saying that people who bought a BMW are going to ask themselves in sorrow, "Why didn't I buy a Honda?" I have only heard that from those who really couldn't afford a BMW and the maintenance they incur but not from people who like having and can afford "the best." Have you seen the Tesla S? That thing is like what iPhone was to smartphones when it first came out--the way a phone (or car) should be. It would be attractive even as an ICE. It is very nice. Of course you have to pay to get that. And people will always pay for quality, perceived or real. Tesla will continue to have steady sales fed from those who can easily afford it. Those who made the financially unwise emotional purchase are, I suspect, in the minority.
Like I said, not a great example but valid point on the niche comment. Tesla is the niche of the niche and will only belong to a select few. Leaf is much closer to mainstream but you are right in saying it is still niche because of the range limitation--or rather, the total experience. Either the range needs to get near 300 or the recharge time needs to get down to 10 minutes. Then EVs will become more "mainstream." The term "mainstream" is not a particular brand or model but the typical experience and that experience is, for cars, 10-minute fill ups, refueling stations everywhere, and a relatively small refuel-to-miles-traveled ratio.
mhigley
Well-known member
I started this post, not to say "Hey, look what the Conservative Republicans are saying." I was just repeating what I saw. Many (if not the majority) of my EV friends are conservatives. I consider myself an Independent. I support politicians who support EVs no matter what side they are on. I differ with my conservative friends on some things and agree with them on others. When we are talking EVs, we are AMERICANS. Sorry if that sounds corny but that's how I feel.
What I will say is that I have yet to see a positive story about EVs on FN. The most positive segment I have seen on EVs on FN was this one on the Volt. Maybe FN thought all conservatives were EV haters and found out different? Maybe that's why they ran this segment? I don't know. I do know that as these cars become more popular it won't take all news outlets (including the NYT) very long to stop bashing EVs and jump on the band wagon. I have a dream............
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnMxtET-gWg[/youtube]
thankyouOB
Well-known member
SierraQ said:
it is obvious because -- first of all, I did NOT say "conservative-leaning folks are EV-haters"; so dont use that old right-wing, change-my-quote tactic on me -- and second of all because there is so much LEAF and EV bashing and Climate Change denial on all those faux news shows.
The volk who watch Faux and believe what they watch would not think EVs are useful, worthwhile or sensible, and they certainly would see NO NEED to reduce their carbon emissions and air pollution by getting off of gasoline.
is that clear, now?
or did i need to shout, point and get all o'reilly on you? here, catch the tiny little football the host loves to toss with his inflexible little brain.
---
separately, i am always glad to see that conservatives are environmentalists, too.
