Existing Home Electric Versus Second EV Meter - Economics

[DNAinaGoodWay]

of all the skills in home ownership to learn, electric and plumbing are the ones most worth learning.

So true. In this case though, he's likely going to have to have a licensed electrician do the install to qualify for the program, but digging the trench will save some bucks. Trenching by hand is easier on the lawn, you can cut and save the turf for later, but it can be nasty work in the glacial till we call soil, even if you don't hit ledge. The Mini backhoe idea someone mentioned might save your back.

 

[Eire32]

[/quote]

Will do. Later, when I get home.

Agree with that last post ^, plus, there are no really cheap electricians. They're all pricey. This job will cost you some buck no matter what. You just want to avoid the really overpriced ones.[/quote]

of all the skills in home ownership to learn, electric and plumbing are the ones most worth learning.[/quote]

I agree, but in MA you need to be a licensed electrician for this project rather than just DIY.

Anyone else's power companies offering cheaper rates for off peak EV charging?

 

[flyonpa]

My Electric company offers 8pm-8am Electric car Rates $23/month + .0415 KwH - OffPeak rates (EV Peak rate = .28 KwH)

Normal every day rates are .07 KwH for 1st 1000KwH, >1K = .0815/Summer .0415/Winter

 

[Eire32]

My Electric company offers 8pm-8am Electric car Rates $23/month + .0415 KwH - OffPeak rates (EV Peak rate = .28 KwH)

Normal every day rates are .07 KwH for 1st 1000KwH, >1K = .0815/Summer .0415/Winter

Wow!
Cheap!
Ours is 10pm to 8am, 5c KWH or 15c otherwise

 

[Valdemar]

My Electric company offers 8pm-8am Electric car Rates $23/month + .0415 KwH - OffPeak rates (EV Peak rate = .28 KwH)

Normal every day rates are .07 KwH for 1st 1000KwH, >1K = .0815/Summer .0415/Winter

Wow!
Cheap!
Ours is 10pm to 8am, 5c KWH or 15c otherwise

Perhaps this will make you feel a bit better, Edison in SoCal charges 11c off-peak and 30c on-peak on their EV TOU plan. Still pretty cheap compared to gas prices.

 

[srl99]

Your avatar doesn't show where you are. But for example - the average contractor around here in So Cal wanted to rape us for $1,000 to bust out the stucco & install a meter socket. I'd be dead of old age before recapturing that kind of expense. On the other hand, our PV array is large enough that So Cal Edison has to pay us at least $100/yr for our surplus juice. That eventually won't go to such waste (giving juice back to edision) once we replace the hybrid Lexus with a 2nd plug in car.

Doesn't sound that bad, if it includes the permit, the waiting around for the inspector and the utility to come and (re)connect the power after the permit is signed off. If you do the waiting around part yourself - you might save some $$'s.

 

[bbrowncods]

If you can, really look at any EV electrical program that allows you to save on your total bill, vice a seperate meter for your EV.

I utilize the EV+Home Plan. Takes advantage of lower prices for all household activities off-peak.

I use the plan by putting a timer on the water heater to cut off during peak time. Other ways I save is run the air-conditioner more during off peak times (super cool the house) and cut back the thermostat (programmed) during peak. Of course I charge the Leaf only between 1-5AM. Just think of it as another appliance. I also use the delay timers on the dish washer and clothes dryer. All in all I have save about 30% on my electric bill, even with the Leaf. For instance last year 16June-15July ebill was $293.00; this year it was $165.00 (this year was a little cooler and one less adult in the house).

Dominion Power (Virginia) 3 rate structures.

1. Normal Rate Plan charges 0.11/Kwh.

2. EV Rate Plan. Requires a seperate meter that is free, but you have to have an electrician install it and your circuit.
Year round
On-Peak: 6 a.m. - 10 p.m. ................................ 17.97¢
Off-Peak: 10 p.m. - 1 a.m.; 5 a.m. - 6 a.m. ...........8.63¢
Super Off-Peak: 1 a.m. - 5 a.m. ...........................5.37¢

3. EV+Home Plan. Uses existing meter. Takes advantage of lower prices for all household activities off-peak.
April 16 - October 15
On-Peak: 1 p.m. - 7 p.m. ....................................16.24¢
Intermediate: 10 a.m. - 1 p.m.; 7 p.m. - 10 p.m. 10.55¢
Off-Peak: 10 p.m. - 1 a.m.; 5 a.m. - 10 a.m. .......... 8.39¢
Super Off-Peak: 1 a.m. - 5 a.m. ............................. 5.13¢
October 16 - April 15
On-Peak: 6 a.m. - 11 a.m.; 5 p.m. - 10 p.m. ....... 11.34¢
Off-Peak: 5 a.m. - 6 a.m.; 11 a.m. - 5 p.m.;
10 p.m. - 1 a.m. .................................................... 8.84¢
Super Off-Peak: 1 a.m. - 5 a.m. ............................. 6.07¢

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

How do they treat net metering, if you have solar?

MA is discussing TOU rates, and I expect we'll have something like what you describe.

 

[bbrowncods]

How do they treat net metering, if you have solar?

MA is discussing TOU rates, and I expect we'll have something like what you describe.

You can only be under one plan. There are two solar plans, Net Metering and Solar Purchase Program.
Net Metering (one meter) is as you would expect, you only pay for what you use, and bank for future use anything you produce in excess. Pretty much a running account.
Solar Purchase requires two meters, one for what you use, and one for what you produce. You pay for what you use and you get paid 0.15/Kwh for what you produce. You are billed monthly or sent a check based on the balance.
I am pretty sure that for both of these you have to be on the Normal Rate plan. No double dipping so to speak.

 

[Eire32]

With the trench guy not turning up and electrician quotes all over the place among other things I've decided to just get a second service to the garage to supply the EV.

Electrical co do the wire drop to the garage for free and the electrical install is obviously way easier no trench. I just pay a service fee of $8 per month!

However no trench (save $400-500) and install electrician fee dropped from $1400 to $1,000 as its simpler.

I reckon this is better, less upfront costs, less hassle with trench etc. plus will supply a full 100 amp to the garage for the EVs and not draw from the home 200 amp supply.

Just putting this out there for others in the same situation later.
It would be 9 years before the alternative option trench etc would even start to pay back.

 

[bbrowncods]

Excellent choice.

I already had a 30A/240V circuit ready to go. I just had to change the plug type. Now I run 27.5A and charge it up!

 

[billg]

Will you get the cheap EV rate (5c?) on the new service? If so, this certainly sounds like the best idea.

I assume your current 120v service to the garage will remain on the existing meter?

 

[Eire32]

Will you get the cheap EV rate (5c?) on the new service? If so, this certainly sounds like the best idea.

I assume your current 120v service to the garage will remain on the existing meter?

Yes to both!
Almost the last option you'd think of!
It would be 9 years just to break even with the price difference and maybe containing yourself to 50 amps or less service in future

 

[Valdemar]

Excellent choice.

I already had a 30A/240V circuit ready to go. I just had to change the plug type. Now I run 27.5A and charge it up!

Hmm, is that 30A circuit run with 10AWG wire? If so, I'd be concerned about pulling 27.5A through it for EV charging.

 

[Kubla]

Excellent choice.

I already had a 30A/240V circuit ready to go. I just had to change the plug type. Now I run 27.5A and charge it up!

Hmm, is that 30A circuit run with 10AWG wire? If so, I'd be concerned about pulling 27.5A through it for EV charging.

10 gauge is code for 30 amps, you will have no problem with that, it is what my 30 amp dryer runs on

 

[AlanSqB]

It's a continuous load so needs to be de-rated to 80% of the rated capacity or 24 Amps. The 6.6kwh charger is over that at 27.5 Amps so the EVSE should be set to advertise a max of 24 Amps or be placed on a higher rated circuit.

 

[bbrowncods]

It's a continuous load so needs to be de-rated to 80% of the rated capacity or 24 Amps. The 6.6kwh charger is over that at 27.5 Amps so the EVSE should be set to advertise a max of 24 Amps or be placed on a higher rated circuit.

Is it a continuous load? Why?

 

[AlanSqB]

It is pulling those amps continuously for the entire charging period. For continuous loads, you need wire and circuit breakers rated for 125% of your max load...or the inverse...don't put a continuous load of more than 80% of the rated capacity.

Your wires and circuit breakers are resistors. Put more amps through them than they are rated for and they will exceed their thermal limit. In some cases this thermal excess can melt insulation, cause scorching, and other dangerous stuff.

 

[bbrowncods]

A 30A circuit can pull 30 amps, or any load up to that. Right? What makes it a continuous load, the amps or the time?

 

[AlanSqB]

No, a 30 Amp circuit needs to be derated to 24 Amps for a load like an EV. To run 27.5 Amps you will need a bigger breaker and larger gague wire.