EVSE Upgrade

[Legolas]

Hi
I am about to jump into leasing a 2013 Leaf for 24mnts. Can you help answer some questions I have on charging?

I am leaning towards SL w/ Fast Charge Package (~$1650) or SV (included)

1. Does the fast-charge (80% charge in 30min) work for @ home chargers?
2. Is the Fast-charge the same as EVSEUpgrad?e http://evseupgrade.com/?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=4
3. If the above is different, how much different is it?
4. My company I work for has chargers, how can I tell these are Fast Charge?

A quick response would be most appreciated. If fast-charge is not such a great deal in comparison to EVSEUpgrade, I may just go w/ base SL model for lease.

Thanks in advance

 

[TimLee]

First, only the 2013 LEAF SL has the Quick Charge Port standard. On the 2013 LEAF S the Charge Package would give it to you along with the 6 kW onboard charger and RearView Monitor. For the SV you would also have to get the LED+QC Package.
I personally think if the area you are in has CHAdeMO DCFC units available, having the Quick Charge Port is very advantageous. I've probably used it 50 times in the past 23 months in East Tennessee. It is mainly useful if you need to travel further than the LEAFs typical 50 to 60 mile interstate driving in one day.
The 2013 LEAF with the on board 6 kW charger will reduce this advantage some though, as it can charge with a 30 A Level 2 EVSE in a bit over 3 hours. The 6 kW on board charger is part of the Charge Package on the 2013 LEAF S, and standard on the SV and SL.
Now your questions:
1. No. Not unless your house had an industrial level 3-phase service and you had about $10,000 to buy and install one.
2. No.
3. DCFC (DC Fast Charge) is CHAdeMO charging, and will charge a LEAF from nearly empty to 80% in a little over 30 minutes. Charging from nearly empty to 100% is about an hour. The EVSEUpgrade will supply power for a 2011 / 2012 LEAF that has a 3.3 kW on board charger to charge from nearly empty to 80% in about 5 hours, to 100% in about 6 to 6 1/2 hours. It is a 20 amp Level 2 EVSE (Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment). Most of the other Level 2 EVSE that you find are 30 Amp. The 2013 LEAF with the 6 kW on board charger will charge in a bit more than 1/2 the time it takes for a 2011 / 2012 LEAF or a 2013 LEAF that does not have the 6 kW (input to the battery) on board charger.
4. It is unlikely they are CHAdeMO DCFC. If they are CHAdeMO DCFC, the ChaDemo connector to the vehicle is much larger, about 3 1/2" across and the cable is nearly 3" in diameter, versus about 1 1/2" for the Level 2 EVSE connector.

 

[planet4ever]

Just to give you a brief conceptual view:

• L1 charging: Up to 22 hours. Uses the "trickle charge cord" (really an EVSE) that comes with the car.
• L2 charging: Up to 7 hours. Uses a charging station (a kind of EVSE), the upgraded L1 EVSE, or some other portable L2 EVSE.
• Quick Charge: Up to 1 hour. Uses a very large and expensive external charger. There are several hundred of them in the US.

The car has a builtin charger which is used with the L1 or L2 EVSE. This year there is a more powerful 6kW charger you can get with the car that can cut the L2 charging nearly in half, though only with the more powerful EVSEs. A Quick Charge port is standard on the SL and now optional on the other models. This is essentially just a second place to plug in at the front of the car.

Ray

 

[Legolas]

Thanks planet4ever and TimLee. Okay, I think I have a better understanding.

FYI, the dealer sent me an email saying both SV and SL have quick charge package!!. This seems to be different from what you state.

 

[planet4ever]

FYI, the dealer sent me an email saying both SV and SL have quick charge package!!. This seems to be different from what you state.

There is the faster on-board charger option and also the Quick Charge Port option. Both the SV and SL come standard with the faster 6kW on-board charger, and it is an option for the S model. That gives you L2 charging in four hours or less with most EVSEs (a bit longer with 20A EVSEs like the EVSEupgrade). Only the SL has the Quick Charge Port standard, but it is an option on the other two models. The dealer could be confused between the two, or he could be talking about the vehicles he has in stock. For the SV, there is an "LED Headlights + Quick Charge Port" package.

This Nissan website is where I go to check these things out: 2013 Nissan LEAF Press Kit. Click the "Specs" tab.

Ray

 

[Ingineer]

The EVSE Upgrade basically converts your Level 1 charge cord that comes with all LEAF models to also be capable of Level 2 when used on a 240 volt outlet. This drops charging time from the slow 12-20 hours of Level 1 (120 volts) to typically 3-5 hours if you get the SL, SV, or S with the charging package, and about 5-7 hours for the basic S.

The point is to save you lots of money over having the expensive wall-mounted Level 2 charge dock installed, and then you also get a portable unit.

-Phil

 

[Legolas]

The dealer could be confused between the two, or he could be talking about the vehicles he has in stock. For the SV, there is an "LED Headlights + Quick Charge Port" package.

Ray

The dealer is probably referring to the stock on hand, as they specifically included SL and SV in the statement. Thanks for all this info. I know this is subjective..... but is upgrading to SL from SV worth it for a 2yr lease? or even adding a quick-charge port on the SV, given I don't see too many opportunities to use this, especially given the 4hr charge time for the 2013 models.

 

[davewill]

... I know this is subjective..... but is upgrading to SL from SV worth it for a 2yr lease? or even adding a quick-charge port on the SV, given I don't see too many opportunities to use this, especially given the 4hr charge time for the 2013 models.

For a two year lease, I'd only spring extra for the QC port if you've a good chance of using one fairly regularly. If you're thinking about purchasing, then you can take a longer outlook and get it in hopes that it becomes useful later, for only two years, you probably already know whether QCs are likely to become available. As far as the SV vs SL choice. I don't think the lease and its length enters into it. Either the features are worth the higher payment to you or they're not.

 

[vrwl]

For a two year lease, I'd only spring extra for the QC port if you've a good chance of using one fairly regularly. If you're thinking about purchasing, then you can take a longer outlook and get it in hopes that it becomes for useful later, for only two years, you probably already know whether QCs are likely to become available. As far as the SV vs SL choice. I don't think the lease and its length enters into it. Either the features are worth the higher payment to you or they're not.

+1

I got the Quick Charge port on my 2011 LEAF and haven't used it once yet. Very few quick chargers in the area, and those that are here require a monthly subscription to use and I wouldn't use them enough to justify the usage cost. Double check the Quick Charger availability in your area (and what is required to access them) before you add on a feature to your car that you may never use. I was uneducated about the availability of QC in our area and ended up paying for something I haven't used.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

It would be interesting to know the percentage of Leafers who have ever used L3 charging, and of those, how many have done it more than once or twice just to try it out. Probably pretty low on both counts.

 

[Ingineer]

Here in the SF Bay Area, I definitely have used my CHAdeMO port, and I wouldn't consider a LEAF without it. In some areas there simply are no QC's, so it may not be as important. When you can stop for about the same time as it takes for a Gasser to fill up and leave with twice the range, it is a godsend!

-Phil

 

[leafedbehind]

Here in the SF Bay Area, I definitely have used my CHAdeMO port, and I wouldn't consider a LEAF without it. In some areas there simply are no QC's, so it may not be as important. When you can stop for about the same time as it takes for a Gasser to fill up and leave with twice the range, it is a godsend!

-Phil

Yes -- I will certainly echo that sentiment! We have used it several times when it was critical, and several times when it was convenient. I'm disappointed that the Fit EV has no level-3, because it makes the decision on which car to take on a road trip difficult -- 6kW Level-2, or Level-3? Need to upgrade to a 2013 LEAF to get both in one car.

 

[TimLee]

I've used it close to 50 times in 23 months. I also would never buy an all electric vehicle without DCFC. I think the manufacturers building them without it are ill advised and doing a dis-service to the viability of all electric vehicles. Whether I'll use it that much once they start charging for it soon is another question.
But it is your choice. If you have no intent to use it, and only plan to lease 2 years and not consider buying at the end of the lease, it might not be worth it to you.
But on a two year lease, the delta isn't huge.
My next door neighbor did a 2 year lease on an SL for $239 per month.
The bargain basement S, was $189.
And for this locale, I would never consider the S.
The advantage of the heat pump heater is just absolutely worth it for a total $ difference on a two year lease of $1200.
And the savings for an SV versus SL is even less.

 

[cgaydos]

On the general topic of EVSEupgrade I have two questions:

1) For 2013 LEAFs with the 6.6 kW charger, what is the difference in charging time between using the EVSEupgrade versus a 30 amp wall EVSE?

2) Suppose you have a 2011 or 2012 LEAF but plan to get a LEAF with a 6.6 kW charger in the future. If you upgrade your 110V 2011/2012 EVSE using EVSEupgrade, will you get the same benefit in the future with a 6.6 kW charger as you would if you upgraded your 100V 2013 EVSE?

 

[planet4ever]

1) For 2013 LEAFs with the 6.6 kW charger, what is the difference in charging time between using the EVSEupgrade versus a 30 amp wall EVSE?

Nissan says 6.6kW is the power at the wall, so at 240v the car could pull up to 27.5A. The EVSEupgrade is limited to 20A at the wall, which would suggest 38% longer with the upgrade. Actually it will probably be a little more than that, at least based on the way the charger cooling system works for the older LEAFs. That seems to pull a constant current independent of charging speed. I would guess that the upgrade would take 45% longer.

2) Suppose you have a 2011 or 2012 LEAF but plan to get a LEAF with a 6.6 kW charger in the future. If you upgrade your 110V 2011/2012 EVSE using EVSEupgrade, will you get the same benefit in the future with a 6.6 kW charger as you would if you upgraded your 100V 2013 EVSE?

Just today Phil announced that he has back ported the 2013 EVSE features to the 2011 and 2012 EVSEs, so you can get the same benefit.

 

[Dragon888]

Just leased a 2013 Nissan Leaf SV and charge it down the street from my office at the Nissan Dealership. It takes about 30 minutes, it is free, and I don't have to wait. I actually leased from a different Nissan dealership, but it makes no difference.

I am thinking about bringing doughnuts and coffee to the dealership so they don't think I am free-loading every time I walk in and ask for the token to charge.

 

[greengate]

Just leased a 2013 Nissan Leaf SV and charge it down the street from my office at the Nissan Dealership. It takes about 30 minutes, it is free, and I don't have to wait. I actually leased from a different Nissan dealership, but it makes no difference.

I am thinking about bringing doughnuts and coffee to the dealership so they don't think I am free-loading every time I walk in and ask for the token to charge.

Many dealers have coffee and treats there for their customers, so if they do, there's a chance you may be viewed as interfering..so look for something else or another way to express your gratitude. (IE: "May I have some of your business cards to pass along to friends and interested parties?")

On the other hand, if they don't, GREAT IDEA!!