EVSE Installation Problem at 1920's house

[RCEV13]

In the 1920's you could have the house electric meter in relatively close proximity to the gas meter (1-2 feet). Fast forward to 2013. Today the electric meter can't be closer than 3 or 4 feet from the gas meter. The potential work around is to add a second breaker box with a second electric meter (that is the proper distance away) that would power my future 240v EVSE in the driveway. The other alternative is to move the current electric meter / breaker panel. An electrician quoted this move at $5000 + 1000 to install the EVSE. This is really killing the EV buzz.

Has anyone else experienced this? What did you do, and what did it cost?

I'm getting a PG&E consultation at the end of the week.

 

[Luft]

In the 1920's you could have the house electric meter in relatively close proximity to the gas meter (1-2 feet). Fast forward to 2013. Today the electric meter can't be closer than 3 or 4 feet from the gas meter. The potential work around is to add a second breaker box with a second electric meter (that is the proper distance away) that would power my future 240v EVSE in the driveway. The other alternative is to move the current electric meter / breaker panel. An electrician quoted this move at $5000 + 1000 to install the EVSE. This is really killing the EV buzz.

Has anyone else experienced this? What did you do, and what did it cost?

I'm getting a PG&E consultation at the end of the week.

I had a new panel put in when I had my heat pump installed. It cost me about $3,000.00.

 

[DaveEV]

At least here in San Diego / SDG&E, the distance away from gas lines the electric meter is depends on whether you're talking about the high pressure or low pressure side - the distance varies - I think it's either 12" or 24" depending on which side you're looking at. Not sure what PG&E's requirements are.

FWIW - my 1970s house has the electric meter directly above the high pressure side. No bueno should I ever want to upgrade my service panel. The quote you got to upgrade/move your panel is in the ballpark I would expect. It might be easier/cheaper to move the gas meter?

My EV meter is tied into my service panel and located to the right of my main-meter/gas-meter. Luckily had enough room on the wall for it to fit without having to move the fence.

 

[RCEV13]

Well thanks for the info. I tried the JUST ANSWER website: pay $15 to have a master electrician answer questions and give a cost estimate. According to this person the install of a 2nd breaker box, and EVSE should cost NO MORE than $800. I'll update this thread after I hear back from PG&E on Thursday or Friday.

 

[smkettner]

Is this about the scary EVSE thing or can you just add an outlet and leave the utilities grandfathered in place?

You're not sticking with knob and tube are you

 

[QueenBee]

Is this about the scary EVSE thing or can you just add an outlet and leave the utilities grandfathered in place?

You're not sticking with knob and tube are you

Yeah, what's the current state of your service panel? Is it not in good shape? Are you meter and service panel one in the same and that's what is driving the need to move the meter?

 

[RCEV13]

I don't understand "knob and tube."

Yes meter and service panel are the same. Electrician said there is plenty of power and room. Concern purely involves the proximity of the electric and gas meters to each other. PG&E did say they can't force me to move anything (grandfathered) however I need to be able to get an approved permit. I'll know more soon.

 

[planet4ever]

I don't understand "knob and tube."

Oh, I do! My father and I rewired a house we moved in to in 1948 that had knob and tube wiring. There's a Wikipedia article on it with pictures.

Ray

 

[smkettner]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knob_and_tube_wiring

Knob is the standoff mount and a tube was used to put the wire through a stud.

 

[QueenBee]

Yes meter and service panel are the same. Electrician said there is plenty of power and room. Concern purely involves the proximity of the electric and gas meters to each other. PG&E did say they can't force me to move anything (grandfathered) however I need to be able to get an approved permit. I'll know more soon.

Ah, you'll have no issues then. PG&E and electrical inspector aren't going to make you move the panel to add a new circuit for your EVSE. Unless your panel is old I don't think there is any good reason to move it.

 

[ebill3]

Oh, I do! My father and I rewired a house we moved in to in 1948 that had knob and tube wiring. There's a Wikipedia article on it with pictures.

And right after knob and tube, we used metal boxes, soldered connections, rubber tape, and cloth friction tape. Now it is plastic boxes and wire nuts. Ain't progress great?

 

[garygid]

Is there no room in the old breaker box for another breaker?

Or, are the old breakers no longer available?

Usually, to add another breaker-panel box, one needs to add
a new breaker in the old box to feed the new sub-panel, right?

I am considering adding a new sub-panel inside the garage wall,
right behind, or in the very next stud space adjacent to the
main panel (which is rather full after adding the Solar PV feed).

Then, I could add a short (inch or 2 long) conduit between the two
panel boxes. Then, it would be fairly easy to "extend" the PV circuit
to the sub-panel, use the present PV breaker to "feed" the sub-panel,
and add new breakers for the EVSE in the sub-panel.

However, I need to write it up and take it to the building department,
and see if it can be permitted, or I need to change my plans.

For me, in order to upgrade my service, or the main panel, SDG&E
requires me to trench to the box near the street, and install large
plastic conduit for them to use to pull in new supply wiring.

The house is vintage 1978 with a 150 amp service and main
breaker box, derated to 110 amps when the Solar 40 amp
breaker was added. As it turns out, the derating only should
have been to (150 * 1.2) - 40 = 180 - 40 = 140 amps, I think.

However, it is difficult to find a breaker of 140 to 120 amps.
Finding 100 amps is easy, and I found the 110 amp breaker
only with some difficulty.

 

[DaveEV]

You are right on with the main breaker calcs and everything else, Gary. I also had the same issue regarding trenching when I looked into upgrading to 200A from 100A service.

 

[RCEV13]

I hope you are right QueenBee....I was hoping this would be a simple arrangement.

The box has power and room according to electrician for the necessary breaker for the EVSE. All the electrician has to do is add the right breaker, wire up a 240v outlet at the end of the driveway, and mount the EVSE right?

The worst part of this is that I am getting by with my commute using the 120v trickle charge. I figure if I had access to a 240v L2 at home I would feel less constrained...but then again proper time / resource management solves that problem already. Oh wait, the point of an L2 charger is so I can get a full charge in less time during non-peak hours. That's it. Right now I charge when I get home from 4pm to 5am. With the L2 I could charge from midnight to 4:30am and get a full charge at 5 cents per kWh. Yeah? Is that why we should go through the trouble to get L2 setups?

 

[davewill]

... The worst part of this is that I am getting by with my commute using the 120v trickle charge. I figure if I had access to a 240v L2 at home I would feel less constrained...but then again proper time / resource management solves that problem already. Oh wait, the point of an L2 charger is so I can get a full charge in less time during non-peak hours. That's it. Right now I charge when I get home from 4pm to 5am. With the L2 I could charge from midnight to 4:30am and get a full charge at 5 cents per kWh. Yeah? Is that why go through the trouble to get L2 setups?

The first reason is the most important to me. L2 means I can stay out late, and still be charged by the next morning. It also means I can run an errand in the morning, recharge, and go somewhere that afternoon or evening. Sure, I can "plan" not to do those things, but they are compromises I'd rather not have to make.

 

[Ingineer]

Also, charging on L2 is significantly more efficient, (wall to battery) so you are saving power, and because you can do more charging off-peak, you are overall greener even if you don't get TOU rates.

Having L2 after living on L1 opens up many more usage opportunities. I found the Leaf even better after upgrading to 6.7kW! A simple "quickie" at a public 30A L2 now adds REAL miles. I think it's the biggest drawback on the gen 1 Leaf. (to skimp on OBC with only 3.3kW)

With L1 (1.4kW input) you are only getting about 1kW into the pack, whereas on 16A 240V L2, (3.8kW) you are getting over 3.3kW in! (well over 3 times faster, and way less loss!)

-Phil

 

[ERG4ALL]

I had a similar problem when I installed some outside heat pumps near my propane. The tank was the prescribed distance from the house (minimum 10 feet), but the tech ran high pressure line to the regulator just before the tube entered the house with the low pressure line. My heat pump pad was only a foot or so away from that regulator. I ended up having a tech remove the regulator just leaving the shut off valve where it was with the regulator. Then he reinstalled the regulator at the tank.

Because of tubing differences, I tested the burners on the stove and all four lit with robust flames so I think the smaller tubing has not hampered the set up. The chances of the furnace and all four stove burners being on at once is nil as the heat pumps carry the heating chores now.

The reason this worked is that the regulator has to have the ability to let off quantities of gas to prevent a tank rupture in overfilled and hot sunny days on the tank. Thus, any gas leakage must be away from anything that may have a solenoid or other device that could potentially create a spark near this outgassing.