EV1 compared to Leaf

[joeaux]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Glad you like your vehicles.

I hardly consider the Volt "superior to the Leaf in almost any way".
It has a claustrophobic cramped interior, shallow trunk, poor visibility, low ceiling. Less than half the electric range while still at a much higher price. Center console is a buggy usability nightmare (Leaf isn't that great either but not as bad). Also the beating when back windows are open is horrendous in the Volt. The Volt has the measly 3.3kw charger and no quick charge option. Its impressive because it has a gas engine which contradicts the whole reason for getting a BEV. Its a compromise in many ways. I like the Cruze. The Volt, built on the Cruze platform, has less space, less trunk space, worse gas mileage while costing a ton more.
What hump? The Leaf's charger was moved in the 2013 to be under the hood in case thats the hump being referenced.

Uh, right. And I've got a 2013 Leaf SL. The charger hump is gone. Now the rear shock tunnels and Bose subwoofer are in the way. Sheesh.

 

[GregH]

Compared to the EV1, the Leaf is cavernous.
I was comparing the EV1 to the Leaf more so than the Roadster in terms of the EV drive system.. similar range, recharge time, acceleration. In terms of body no question the EV1 was closer to the roadster.

 

[CMYK4Life]

"My question to those people is, would you agree that the issue of range is just a capacity issue and not a technology issue?"

No - its more complex than that and its just one big piece in a larger puzzle.

 

[evnow]

My question to those people is, would you agree that the issue of range is just a capacity issue and not a technology issue?

Right. It is a capacity issue. But that in terms becomes a weight, cost & volume issue.

That is why I hate those useless "new battery that would allow for a 300 mile EV" articles.

 

[GregH]

Digging through more old photos from the good old days..
Here's me, CE Raum and William Korthof (Doug's son) on our first coast to coast trip in the EV1s...

 

[joeaux]

Digging through more old photos from the good old days..
Here's me, CE Raum and William Korthof (Doug's son) on our first coast to coast trip in the EV1s...

Awesome shot man. I always lusted after the EV1. GM designed a beautiful car back then. Couldn't afford it though.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

I'd love to have the heated windshield instead of using defrost. Maybe on some future SL.

How did it work on the EV1?

 

[GregH]

When the EV1 first came out there were zero incentives and it was really expensive to lease ($650/mo?)... Sometime in early 1997 some incentives came online that made it somewhat more reasonable (that's when I jumped in.. forget the cost.. $399/mo?). After the gen2 NiMH cars were out in Dec 1999 and early 2000, GM actually allowed re-leases of the gen1 cars with refitted with Panasonic lead acid batteries for a 2 year lease at (I think) $249 or $299/mo.. That was a great deal and a really solid performer.. maybe even a tad more range than a Leaf!

I have mixed feelings on the heated windshield and heat pump... the defog on the heated window worked ok but not great and the heat pump was pretty wimpy. You might get moderately warm air but nothing like the furnace (albeit a power hungry one) on the Leaf. On the gen2 EV1 they added a resistive heating element but it still wasn't half as potent as the 2011/12 Leafs. I haven't experienced the heat pump on the 2013 Leaf so I can't make a comparison.

 

[RonDawg]

$399 in 1997 dollars is worth $580 today. That's still a lot of money just to lease a car, almost the same as it would be to lease a Honda FCX Clarity today.

 

[evnow]

I haven't experienced the heat pump on the 2013 Leaf so I can't make a comparison.

'13 heater is much faster than the '11. The defrost is also very efficient - instead of upward of 3.5kW continuous, it now consumes 0.5kW intermittently. Even my wife who had been very critical of the heater in '11, is impressed. Ofcourse, we haven't had '13 through a winter - so we will know in a few months how it does in 30's & 20's.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I wonder if the EV1 was so far ahead of it's time that anything we do currently can only match it, not improve upon it.

different POVs i am guessing. I feel that an EV 1 released today would be a HUGE step backwards from what I am driving today.

Now do i think i would be driving a much better EV had the movement continued instead of being derailed for 10 years? oh ya, absolutely! the heat issue would have been addressed a decade ago instead of now.

the charging compliance issue would be "half decided" by now.

We would have EVs covering all basic transportation platforms by now...

all that would have happened but to be pining for something "as good" as an EV 1?

dont see that

 

[rmay635703]

I wonder if the EV1 was so far ahead of it's time that anything we do currently can only match it, not improve upon it.

different POVs i am guessing. I feel that an EV 1 released today would be a HUGE step backwards from what I am driving today.

The EV1's body shape is more advanced than anything on the market today, the leaf and volt are both huge steps backward in this regard.

Get the weight and aero taken care of as the EV1 did with inferior heavier batteries and you would have a low cost 250 mile car right now with no increase in the battery size, cost, etc.

Another false statement is "Fail crash tests"

That is impossible, because you merely receive a low score but cannot fail. What you can fail are certifications (that have nothing to do with tests) in terms of "origins" of materials, lack or presence of specific structures or components, presence or lack of specific design techniques. These things are regulated and more or less law is regurgitated from the auto companies in this country to isolate our market.

Safety in the last 10 years in terms of apples to apples comparisons has been "marginal" at best. To gain this 5% improvement we have added 1000lbs to every car on the road, not worth it in my book. You need to always view "huge gains" as requiring huge proof. Most of the improvements to safety recently, have little to do with armoring cars but with how/when our safety systems act. The most effective have had no effect on weight. And actually many of the most effective "safety" systems today are more benign changes to our driving environment external to the car.

At some point diminishing returns eliminates the justification for further expansion of weight and safety systems.

The best safety system (and most effective) for teenage drivers is a cell phone disable in cars, this is proven but we don't get that system do we?

Always pick the low hanging fruit first.

 

[adric22]

I get so tired of this argument. That "giant spine" never gets in the way. Yeah only two people can ride in the back at a time but how many times do you actually have 5 adults in your car? Right. And as far as room in the trunk, it's huge on the Volt with the seats down. The Leaf has a tiny space with the "hump". Now put the seats down and all of a sudden the Leaf has a bunch of room too. And look, you can not compare a Leaf to a Volt. The Volt is a superior car in about every way. It just is. I own them both. I drive them both every day. The Leaf is a wonderful, fun car. The Volt is a wonderful, fun car. But in the end the Volt is the superior automobile when it comes to comfort, ride and range. GM did an outstanding job with the Volt. I've owned a lot of very, very nice cars over the years and the Volt is hands down the best car I've ever owned. Not because it's a GM car. Not because it's American made (although that's a big plus) but because it's a great car. And lastly, if you don't think that Volt is a great design, you don't know squat about the car. The end. Whew. I'm spent.

Sorry guys.. I have to agree with Joeaux. We also own both cars and both my wife and I have decided the Volt is the superior car. Its not perfect and the Leaf has a few minor advantages, but the Volt still wins. When our lease is up on the Leaf in about 8 months, I plan to let it go back and get a second Volt. I do wish Nissan all the best and hope they sell lots of Leafs. Mine has been perfect for over 2 years, not a single issue with it.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Sorry guys.. I have to agree with Joeaux. We also own both cars and both my wife and I have decided the Volt is the superior car. Its not perfect and the Leaf has a few minor advantages, but the Volt still wins. When our lease is up on the Leaf in about 8 months, I plan to let it go back and get a second Volt.

I have to second that, although I have to wonder if my opinion isn't slanted in part by the Leaf lease costing twice as much as the Volt.

As for the split backseat that only has space for two, I figure if it's good enough for the Panamera it's good enough for me.