EV Cabs Come To NYC

[thankyouOB]

Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg has set a goal of having one-third of the city’s taxis electric by 2020. In a statement, he stressed “looking ahead to the taxi of the day after tomorrow,” even though the city’s move to a nearly uniform fleet of Nissan NV200s has yet to start.

Drivers of the pilot’s vehicles, which will be silver and yellow Nissan Leafs, volunteered to participate. They have been afforded certain privileges: Mr. Yassky said cabbies in electric vehicles would be permitted to turn down passengers based on their destinations, to quell any driver concerns about losing a charge in the midst of a trip. “They’re pioneers,” Mr. Yassky said. “We want to give them the leeway.”

Some cabbies have expressed doubts about the viability of an electric taxi, arguing that any charging break would undercut earnings. “You can’t go charge in the middle of your shift,” Fahd Khan, 22, said through a rolled-down cab window in Murray Hill. He will agree to drive an electric vehicle, he said, only if the daily rental rate for his taxi is reduced to compensate him for the charging time.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/22/nyregion/electric-taxi-experiment-to-begin-in-new-york.html?hp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[apvbguy]

this is great news, something that should have happened long ago, once this happens the volume of EVs needed will cause expansions in production and the public will give acceptance to the EV concept, it will spur innovations, cause increased placement of charging stations and hasten the time that it will take to get an EV into everyone's garage.
if it were up to me the police cars, postal cars, utility company cars, local delivery vans in concentrated urban areas like NYC would should all be EVs which are perfectly suited to perform those jobs

 

[Herm]

You guys remember the complaints from the Leaf Taxi drivers in Japan?.. I hope that Nissan battery is refrigerated so it can take several fast DC charges a day.

 

[NYLEAF]

From the photo, it looks like they're using 2012s. I really wish they had gone with the 2013 and the more efficient heater it comes with. Passengers are not going to like being cold come winter!

Also, the 3 QC stations they are installing are all very close together in Manhattan. I guess they're never expecting these taxis to venture out into the other Boroughs. The original plan had included a QC at JFK Airport, but from what I understand, they couldn't get 3 phase power out to the taxi parking lot without incurring major expenses.

 

[thankyouOB]

drivers will be able to decline rides, so it seems they can skip the airport runs and stay in manhattan and or midtown.

 

[NYLEAF]

drivers will be able to decline rides, so it seems they can skip the airport runs and stay in manhattan and or midtown.

Right, which is a big issue, IMHO. Drivers will be afraid to venture out of their comfort zone, especially with the GOM in their face, and they'll wind up turning down trips that they could actually make just fine. I can't wait to hear stories in the news about people who were turned down for a 5 mile ride from Manhattan to Brooklyn because the driver felt he couldn't make it. NY Taxi's (except the Leaf) are well known for being legally required to take you anywhere within the 5 Boroughs, Newark Airport, as well as anywhere in Nassau and Westchester counties. http://www.nyc.gov/html/tlc/html/passenger/taxicab_rights.shtml Except for the edges of Nassau and Westchester, all of these trips should be easily made from Manhattan in a Leaf. Basically, my point is that by allowing drivers to turn down fares, Leaf taxis (and, in turn, all EVs) will get a bad rep in NYC.

 

[SuperBlack]

I agree, there is a risk here to give EV taxis a bad reputation. One possible solution to the taxi drivers' concerns about downtime to charge would be to simply have a larger fleet and let the driver return the exhausted Leaf for a fresh one. It would be as fast as a gas fill-up, as long as the depot wasn't too far out of the way. Basically, battery swapping, but you swap the whole car instead of installing an expensive and complicated system.

 

[mkjayakumar]

all of these trips should be easily made from Manhattan in a Leaf

Just one way. How are they going to make the trip back to Manhattan ?

When they are low on a charge, they could be anywhere in the 50 mile radius. Unless you populate the landscape with over a 100 QCs, this gets impractical. And then there is the degradation from heat due to frequent QC'ing which is a whole another rathole. There are a ton of benefits to running an EV as a taxi, both for the society at large and for the cab owner, but there are huge obstacles that need to be overcome before this can become a reality.

The problems are much more easily solved with a Tesla, but with a Leaf I think we are shooting ourselves on the foot.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

I agree, there is a risk here to give EV taxis a bad reputation. One possible solution to the taxi drivers' concerns about downtime to charge would be to simply have a larger fleet and let the driver return the exhausted Leaf for a fresh one. It would be as fast as a gas fill-up, as long as the depot wasn't too far out of the way. Basically, battery swapping, but you swap the whole car instead of installing an expensive and complicated system.

I was thinking the same thing. You wouldn't even need L3, just 6.6 L2.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Of greater concern is will all those NYC cabbies be content with the Leaf's horn?

Another thought, this would be a good application for your inductive coupling. You could have them in cab waiting lines.

edit: Yet another case where 36-40kWh would make all the difference.

 

[apvbguy]

From the photo, it looks like they're using 2012s. I really wish they had gone with the 2013 and the more efficient heater it comes with. Passengers are not going to like being cold come winter!

Also, the 3 QC stations they are installing are all very close together in Manhattan. I guess they're never expecting these taxis to venture out into the other Boroughs. The original plan had included a QC at JFK Airport, but from what I understand, they couldn't get 3 phase power out to the taxi parking lot without incurring major expenses.

if they do not put l3 chargers at the airport they are wasting their time with the whole EV thing, a good many of the taxi runs are to the airport and charging there would almost be required

 

[NYLEAF]

all of these trips should be easily made from Manhattan in a Leaf

Just one way. How are they going to make the trip back to Manhattan ?

When they are low on a charge, they could be anywhere in the 50 mile radius. Unless you populate the landscape with over a 100 QCs, this gets impractical.

I'd understand it if they said that the EV taxis don't have to take fares to Nassau and Westchester, because quite honestly, anyone who takes a NYC taxi to Nassau or Westchester isn't thinking straight -- there are much easier, much cheaper options. As long as the taxi's stay inside the 5 boroughs and Newark Airport area, they'd be within range. Especially with QCs in high-traffic areas in the outer boroughs. They could put one in Kew Gardens (Queens), one in Bay Ridge (Brooklyn), one in Parkchester (Bronx), one in Washington Heights (Manhattan) and one at Kennedy Airport (Queens) and they'd essentially have the entire city covered. Instead they're putting 3 in Manhattan, two of which are less than 2 miles from each other. I don't really get the point.

 

[KJD]

From the NYT article.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/22/nyregion/electric-taxi-experiment-to-begin-in-new-york.html?hp&_r=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Some drivers said they traveled 100 miles on a typical day.

Does anyone see a problem here ?

The only way this could work is if you had many QC stations around the city, so they could top off at lunch break or something like that. 3 stations downtown is not enough.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

From the NYT article.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/22/nyregion/electric-taxi-experiment-to-begin-in-new-york.html?hp&_r=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Some drivers said they traveled 100 miles on a typical day.

Does anyone see a problem here ?

The only way this could work is if you had many QC stations around the city, so they could top off at lunch break or something like that. 3 stations downtown is not enough.

Did you see SuperBlacks suggestion a few posts back? Just have 20% more cars than needed and a driver swaps cars at the "charging lot" when it gets low. No driver downtime and no QC required, just a decent number of 6.6 L2s.

 

[KJD]

From the NYT article.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/22/nyregion/electric-taxi-experiment-to-begin-in-new-york.html?hp&_r=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Some drivers said they traveled 100 miles on a typical day.

Does anyone see a problem here ?
The only way this could work is if you had many QC stations around the city, so they could top off at lunch break or something like that. 3 stations downtown is not enough.

Did you see SuperBlacks suggestion a few posts back? Just have 20% more cars than needed and a driver swaps cars at the "charging lot" when it gets low. No driver downtime and no QC required, just a decent number of 6.6 L2s.

Yes I did read that and it would be a good solution.

An even better solution would be a LEAF with a larger batter pack from the factory.

 

[BraveLittleToaster]

Oy. I see this as a PR disaster in the works.

Unlike with the Prius which has become the near standard for taxis in my neck of the woods, people will look at the reliability of the Leaf in these trials and say that all electrics suck. The Prius is an excellent taxi thanks to its reliability (in spite of the added complexity in the drivetrain), the big difference in fuel economy, and the big trunk. You can ride them like rented mules and they'll take the abuse with no problems. But the Leaf in comparison, has to be babied. Sure, it's great for us commuters because we don't do 300 km a day, every day, for 8 hours a day, with frequent quick charges. But somehow, 80% of the driving public seems to think that they'd drive a car into the ground in 2 years time.

No, this is going to have the opposite effect on the Leaf that it had on the Prius. For years to come, people will be saying "I heard about those New York taxis, and the batteries were dead after only 18 months!"

 

[TonyWilliams]

No, this is going to have the opposite effect on the Leaf that it had on the Prius. For years to come, people will be saying "I heard about those New York taxis, and the batteries were dead after only 18 months!"

They already had that in Japan, and that's with TONS of quick chargers everywhere.

 

[Drivesolo]

Video of pilot launch in NYC:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRBspDS4Wdw[/youtube]

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

The cabbie said he's using $40 of gas a day. At NYC prices, what is that, like 8 gallons, to go 100 miles? Sounds like these guys spend most of the time idling.

 

[TonyWilliams]

They should have put the black interior in.