QueenBee said:
That's good news! They really should have included WEEBs.
I think there are different WEEBs for different mounting rails.
QueenBee said:
Option #2 definitely seems like the best idea for now
In the end, I decided to follow the instructions. It was nice to replace the unit without ever having to go on the roof! I can always make changes later.
QueenBee said:
I wonder if enough will fail that #3 will make sense.
I'm resigning myself to eventually needing to replace ALL of the units since the serial numbers are not so far apart. It will be interesting to see if any actually survive the full 15 years.
QueenBee said:
You'd be able to sell the single Engage cables for a small amount of money to help offset the cost of ugprading.
:?: Who would buy them?
QueenBee said:
I think it's going to be really difficult to get them to upgrade the firmware on the M190-215 units. What they really could do is offer an upgrade program BEFORE they sent it out. For $25 or something upgrade your failed M190 to a full M215G this would save them money on the engage cable adapter and unique production.
I think you are correct. Per the discussion below, it is not even clear that the hardware is the same. I will definitely be taking this topic up with Enphase next time one fails.
drees said:
Can you take/post some pics of the M190-IG? Curious to see what it looks like.
Sure!
Top:
Basically, it looks just like an M215IG with different stenciling on the top and different stickers on the bottom.
Bottom:
According to the instructions that came with the inverter, that white circle in the center has an LED behind it! Who knew? I certainly didn't know that when I installed the M215IGs. And how are you supposed to see the LED? I'll need to use my telescoping mirror...
Cable:
drees said:
I wonder what they will do for users who have 72-cell panels connected to their M190 as the M190 has higher voltage limits than the M215.
IMO, this is the big question. With my recent upgrade, I now have 72-cell panels connected to 12 of my M190s, so this issue concerns me also. I'll provide a bit more information below..
drees said:
Did you get a cut-sheet for the M190-IG?
No, but here is what is printed on the sticker on the inverter:
drees said:
I'm in for a bit of an issue with my system if I need replacements for a couple reasons:
1. I have 72-cell panels (ET-M572180 44.6V open circuit voltage)
O.K. So, let's take a close look at a comparison between the different inverters that I now have:
Code:
Type | Part Number | Max V DC | MPPT V |
M190 | M190-72-240-S12 | 56V | 22-40V |
M190IG | M190-60-2LL-S22-IG | ??V | 27-39V |
M215IG | M215-60-2LL-S22-IG | 48V | 27-39V |
So here are the conclusions:
- The M190IG part number is only different than the M215IG part number in the first part which represents power.
- Both the M215IG AND the M190IG have "60" in their part numbers. Only the original M190 has 72 in its part number
- Also, the MPPT voltage range for the M190IG is identical to the range offered by the M215IG. The room-temperature MPPT voltage for my 60-cell modules is 30.1V while it is 33.7V for my 72-cell modules, so any of these inverters are suitable from this standpoint.
- Open-circuit PV voltage is the real issue, but they do not reveal the maximum input DC voltage on the label of the M190IG. For now, I will assume it is 48V, just like the M215IGs. That could work for some 72-cell PV modules in warmer climates, but it would be pretty marginal for my modules since the datasheet hits 45V at about 0C, and it got MUCH colder than that last winter. At ~-20C, there would be a problem.
Anyway, it does really appear that the M190IGs are M215IGs with different firmware and different labeling.
I have searched the web for a datasheet for "Enphase M190-60-2LL-S22-IG" and I did not come up with anything.
In my case, I will make sure that the first 30 M190IGs that I receive get connected to the 60-cell PV modules on my roof (and will likely upgrade the wiring to Engage as needed). After that, I'm not sure what the solution would be. Perhaps QueenBee is correct and some of them will not fail. We will see.
For drees, perhaps 48V is high enough, if perhaps a bit marginal.
But for people in very cold climates with 72-cell PV modules, I don't think this is a solution. Perhaps there are not very many customers who fit that description.
drees said:
2. Not currently using weebs to mount the inverters. Would have to buy extra hardware to weeb-mount replacement inverters,...
Installing a WEEB is trivial. You simply place it over one of the mounting bolts between the inverter and the rail. If you have your rails grounded, then the inverters will be grounded from the rail. If you are using Unirac, I can send you some WEEBs if/when it comes time to start swapping M190s for M190IGs.
drees said:
...and hopefully it's not a center-row inverter that fails as that would really make getting the mounting hardware that slides into the rail difficult. Would be easier to swap out a center inverter for one on the end.
Both the M190 and the M190IGs mount with two bolts, so I guess I don't see the need to slide new hardware in or out. I haven't had to do any of that. As mentioned, the WEEB just slides over the bolt before the inverter goes on.