Electric bill

[Stanton]

I think @baustin has provided a reasonable calculation/scenario.
Bottom line: there is no way an EV won't be cheaper to drive than even the most efficient (commercial) ICE in the world @11 cents/kWh.

 

[WyrTwister]

That sounds encouraging .

Thanks ,
Wyr
God bless

 

[ncscenic]

Through the Nissan Owners Portal, Carwings will show you an electric rate simulation based on your recent driving.

 

[WyrTwister]

Through the car display ? Or the Web ? ( Link , please . )

The GOM numbers are starting to come up up some , since the new tires .

God bless
Wyr

 

[ncscenic]

Through the car display ? Or the Web ?
Online at https://owners.nissanusa.com/nowners/user/home

After you create a user profile and connect to your car, you can access ev.nissanconnect.com which among other things will allow you to run an electric rate simulation.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Electrical Cost Per
Date KWH Cost KWH
2016-08-01 2797 $285.37 $0.10
2016-07-01 1404 $147.10 $0.10
2016-06-01 90 $97.09 $0.11
2016-05-01 766 $74.64 $0.10
2016-04-01 815 $78.92 $0.10
2016-03-01 806 $78.12 $0.10
2016-02-01 758 $73.97 $0.10
2016-01-01 925 $100.09 $0.11
2015-12-01 735 $81.14 $0.11
2015-11-01 871 $94.70 $0.11
2015-10-01 1183 $125.85 $0.11
2015-09-01 1425 $167.88 $0.12
2015-08-01 1785 $204.29 $0.11

$285.37 “ - $204.29 “ = $81.08

Not sure how many miles we are driving per month ?

The ICE Chevy Sonic gets 24 - 26 mpg city and 34 + mpg highway . Gasoline $ 2 per gallon + -

God bless
Wyr

you go from 2797 kwh a month in July from 90 kwh in May? you have got to be kidding me. Either your utility is reading your meter a few times a year and doing a REALLY piss poor job of averaging your usage or you have a LOT more you need to tell us about yourself like what you have that triples your power usage.

at 10 cents a kwh you should be able to drive your LEAF between 2380 to over 3,000 miles. I would definitely be asking your utility a lot of questions

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I read hydroelectric is potentially the cheapest electric power . Is PG&E hydro ?

Ours is mostly coal & natural gas . Probably some wind . Not much solar .

God bless
Wyr

you haven't priced the cost of a dam lately and with the expected changes in rain patterns, guessing a good rate on a loan aint happening either.

Solar is the cheapest by far. If you don't believe this statement, wait a few years... it is true

 

[WyrTwister]

The month of May probably had almost no A/C usage .

Temp has finally broken , but we had a couple of months Days of 100F + .

As I think I mentioned , I am on the city owned electrical utility . I can not swear when they actually read the electric meter . Or if they actually charge what they want to generate the revenue they want ?

As far as dams , I do not think they are actually building any new ones . I hear they are actually tearing some down ? They are killing some obscure fish no one ever heard of ?

God bless
Wyr

 

[XeonPony]

The month of May probably had almost no A/C usage .

Temp has finally broken , but we had a couple of months Days of 100F + .

As I think I mentioned , I am on the city owned electrical utility . I can not swear when they actually read the electric meter . Or if they actually charge what they want to generate the revenue they want ?

As far as dams , I do not think they are actually building any new ones . I hear they are actually tearing some down ? They are killing some obscure fish no one ever heard of ?

God bless
Wyr

Here in Canada there is site C dam that is being constructed, and no obscure fish exist there!

May science education find you.
Xeon.

 

[Aussie]

We have had the 2012 Leaf for a little over 1 month . So I only compared one month in 2016 to 2015 .

I reset the trip odometer shortly after we took delivery of the Leaf .

Currently showing 1049 miles . 4.1 miles / kw .

Sorry , these are the only numbers I have .

Our utility does not offer different rates for different times of day .

Charged 1 time at home Level 1 120 VAC . The rest , Level 2 240 VAC .

Taking baby steps here .

God bless
Wyr

Then lets work with the numbers you have.

1049 miles divided by 4.1 miles per kwh equals 255.85 kwh used.

Account for loss from charging (85% efficient) 255.85 divided .85 equals 301 kwh used.

301 kwh times stated .10 rate equals $30.10 for Leaf electricity use.


This has been a hot summer across the whole country. Your method of comparing last year to this year combines the added cost from high temperatures in with the cost of driving the leaf. Even with a 30% margin for error, the cost of driving the Leaf is about half of what you determined by comparing yearly power bills.

Baustin's numbers look quite reasonable. Month to month costs for electricity bills is not a reliable way to determine milage. If you are L1 charging (120V) then you could buy yourself a little power meter and measure for yourself to confirm.

 

[minispeed]

Electrical Cost Per
Date KWH Cost KWH
2016-08-01 2797 $285.37 $0.10
2016-07-01 1404 $147.10 $0.10
2016-06-01 90 $97.09 $0.11
2016-05-01 766 $74.64 $0.10
2016-04-01 815 $78.92 $0.10
2016-03-01 806 $78.12 $0.10
2016-02-01 758 $73.97 $0.10
2016-01-01 925 $100.09 $0.11
2015-12-01 735 $81.14 $0.11
2015-11-01 871 $94.70 $0.11
2015-10-01 1183 $125.85 $0.11
2015-09-01 1425 $167.88 $0.12
2015-08-01 1785 $204.29 $0.11

$285.37 “ - $204.29 “ = $81.08

Not sure how many miles we are driving per month ?

The ICE Chevy Sonic gets 24 - 26 mpg city and 34 + mpg highway . Gasoline $ 2 per gallon + -

God bless
Wyr

you go from 2797 kwh a month in July from 90 kwh in May? you have got to be kidding me. Either your utility is reading your meter a few times a year and doing a REALLY piss poor job of averaging your usage or you have a LOT more you need to tell us about yourself like what you have that triples your power usage.

at 10 cents a kwh you should be able to drive your LEAF between 2380 to over 3,000 miles. I would definitely be asking your utility a lot of questions

I think it's pretty obvious May is a typo and should be about 970 kWh used.

So if "2016-08-01 2797" is the first month with the leaf lets look at the extra electricity used that month vs the previous

2797-1404=1393
divide that by 31 days to see how much more electricity you used each day
1393/31= 44.95 kWh more used each day.

That would mean for that to be all leaf you would have had to charge the battery from 0-100% twice every single day? If we assume your 2012 has a bit of battery degradation probably more than twice. If you are getting 4.1 miles per kWh even assuming a 15% difference in the car display vs from the wall power you would have had to drive almost 4966 miles that month for all that extra power to be just from the car. If that was the case it would still be just 2.8 cents per mile.

 

[WyrTwister]

No , that is the total pow usage for the Leaf & the house ( including HVAC ) .

God bless
Wyr

 

[WyrTwister]

We have had the 2012 Leaf for a little over 1 month . So I only compared one month in 2016 to 2015 .

I reset the trip odometer shortly after we took delivery of the Leaf .

Currently showing 1049 miles . 4.1 miles / kw .

Sorry , these are the only numbers I have .

Our utility does not offer different rates for different times of day .

Charged 1 time at home Level 1 120 VAC . The rest , Level 2 240 VAC .

Taking baby steps here .

God bless
Wyr

Then lets work with the numbers you have.

1049 miles divided by 4.1 miles per kwh equals 255.85 kwh used.

Account for loss from charging (85% efficient) 255.85 divided .85 equals 301 kwh used.

301 kwh times stated .10 rate equals $30.10 for Leaf electricity use.


This has been a hot summer across the whole country. Your method of comparing last year to this year combines the added cost from high temperatures in with the cost of driving the leaf. Even with a 30% margin for error, the cost of driving the Leaf is about half of what you determined by comparing yearly power bills.

Baustin's numbers look quite reasonable. Month to month costs for electricity bills is not a reliable way to determine milage. If you are L1 charging (120V) then you could buy yourself a little power meter and measure for yourself to confirm.

Only charged L1 one time . Rest L2 . But for all practical purposes the cost to charge should be almost the same for L1 or L2 . L1 pulls power but takes , maybe , 3 times as long . The 2012 model Leaf has a 3.3 kw charger built into the car . Latter model year Leafs have a 6.6 kw charger .

God bless
Wyr

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

no matter how long this thread becomes, the basic facts remain. at 10 cents per kwh, you are building your power bill at no worse than the rate of 3 to 3½ cents per mile. forgive me if I am wrong but I am pretty sure this is a slightly better way to determine how much your LEAF contributed to your power bill

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Only charged L1 one time . Rest L2 . But for all practical purposes the cost to charge should be almost the same for L1 or L2 . L1 pulls power but takes , maybe , 3 times as long . The 2012 model Leaf has a 3.3 kw charger built into the car . Latter model year Leafs have a 6.6 kw charger .

God bless
Wyr

What you are missing is efficiency. IIRC, the 2012 charger is about 75% efficient on L1, but 85% on L2.

To put 10kWh back into the battery with L1, it takes 10/.75 = 13.3kWh from the wall. With L2, it is 10/.85 = 11.8kWh from the wall.

If you get 4 miles/kWh from the battery, you travel 40 miles on that charge. At $0.10/kWh, it cost you $1.33, or $0.0333/mile on L1. Or $1.18 = $0.0295/mile on L2.

So not identical, but pretty darn close.

 

[WyrTwister]

I get efficiency . Although I did not know the numbers . The energy lost is just part of the cost of doing business .

So the L2 is something like 10% more efficient than L1 . A consideration , but not going to break the bank .

However , L1 being slower would have less impact on battery temperature .

I have never charged the car anywhere but at the house . First time was L1 . I installed L2 and the rest of the time was charging L2 . Not for the added efficiency but form the shorter time .

God bless
Wyr

 

[Flyct]

Electrical Cost Per
Date KWH Cost KWH
2016-08-01 2797 $285.37 $0.10
2016-07-01 1404 $147.10 $0.10
2016-06-01 90 $97.09 $0.11
2016-05-01 766 $74.64 $0.10
2016-04-01 815 $78.92 $0.10
2016-03-01 806 $78.12 $0.10
2016-02-01 758 $73.97 $0.10
2016-01-01 925 $100.09 $0.11
2015-12-01 735 $81.14 $0.11
2015-11-01 871 $94.70 $0.11
2015-10-01 1183 $125.85 $0.11
2015-09-01 1425 $167.88 $0.12
2015-08-01 1785 $204.29 $0.11

$285.37 “ - $204.29 “ = $81.08

Not sure how many miles we are driving per month ?

The ICE Chevy Sonic gets 24 - 26 mpg city and 34 + mpg highway . Gasoline $ 2 per gallon + -

God bless
Wyr

We have a 3100 sq ft house with a 5 Ton Central AC in HOT South Florida. Average Outdoor Temperatures has been well over 90 degrees almost every day in August
We have a 1.5 HP pool pump running 7 hours a day (estimate $40/mo)
We've had our 5 ton Pool Heat pump on since May and it is set to keep the pool at 90 degrees. It runs about 1.5 house a day to maintain the 90 deg (Estimate $30/mo)
We drive out Leaf about 500 miles a month Estimate ($15/mo)

Our August bill was $203.

 

[TimLee]

...

However , L1 being slower would have less impact on battery temperature .

...

Maybe not.
L2 does not really cause much battery heating either.

And the L1 is taking a much longer time with the LEAF using its roughly 300 to 500 watts of power just being powered up.

I have not run such tests, but pack temperature rise may be similar.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Only charged L1 one time . Rest L2 . But for all practical purposes the cost to charge should be almost the same for L1 or L2 . L1 pulls power but takes , maybe , 3 times as long . The 2012 model Leaf has a 3.3 kw charger built into the car . Latter model year Leafs have a 6.6 kw charger .

God bless
Wyr

What you are missing is efficiency. IIRC, the 2012 charger is about 75% efficient on L1, but 85% on L2.

To put 10kWh back into the battery with L1, it takes 10/.75 = 13.3kWh from the wall. With L2, it is 10/.85 = 11.8kWh from the wall.

If you get 4 miles/kWh from the battery, you travel 40 miles on that charge. At $0.10/kWh, it cost you $1.33, or $0.0333/mile on L1. Or $1.18 = $0.0295/mile on L2.

So not identical, but pretty darn close.

85% on the 3.3 KW charger but just under 90% on the 6 KW chargers so it can add up significantly over time

 

[rexki]

I think we have beat up and killed the Leaf NOT being the issue.

The problem is the house kWh pull NOT the Leaf. His house ate an extra 600-700 kWh for a monthly period especially if he is monitoring and watching the meter on a daily basis. Estimated billing versus actual usage, and not sure I read in previous responses that this is a smart meter, so their should be no actual versus estimated difference.

First thing to do is measure each AC output temperature and then subtract the indoor air temperature in the vicinity of the AC unit. This delta should be at least 18 degrees and can go up to super efficient 21-22 degree delta. Low delta implies low refrigerant the majority of the time. If unit is over 10 years the compressor could be going as well and this will affect the temp delta.

Second compare the result for all the AC units including the central AC unit(s). My guess is that the compressor(s) are running double to triple time and may even ice up if the delta gets too low and then you are just wasting AC blower electricity to push warm air.

You can also learn to count the beeps (pulses) on the smart meter or count the rotations of the old platter to get watts per minute and isolate and measure that for each AC unit - only run one and shut the rest down at the circuit breaker.

Hopefully you did not newly plugin an old refrigerator, install a new pool or spa in this suspect period of August electric billing. If you have electric heat, turn that monster circuit breaker off if possible until its gets cold Heat pumps may not have that option to isolate the heat circuit.