Bicster
Well-known member
I drove the FFE today. Amazed. Excited. It evoked emotions the LEAF did not. I'm so conflicted by this. And the tiny tiny trunk... I'll start a new thread about it later when I have more time.
Bicster said:I drove the FFE today. Amazed. Excited. It evoked emotions the LEAF did not. I'm so conflicted by this. And the tiny tiny trunk... I'll start a new thread about it later when I have more time.
Not sure, Nissan was too optimistic at first (stranded motorists), then too conservative (disappointed motorists). Maybe their engineers don't really know how to accurately measure the last bit of capacity?TonyWilliams said:...If it shows 5 to go, they should expect it will go 5 more miles. Nissan can easily fix this, and rig up the GOM for any parameter they want.
ILETRIC said:I wish Edmund's took the cars to Hwy 5 and ran them at 65 on flat ground. In town mileage to me is meaningless... California is a freeway country. That's all we drive here. I bought the Leaf for a 84-mile freeway commute. Didn't materialize because the range is 73. It's "her" car now.
Agree w/the first point.ILETRIC said:I wish Edmund's took the cars to Hwy 5 and ran them at 65 on flat ground. In town mileage to me is meaningless... California is a freeway country. That's all we drive here.
Boomer23 said:As for why Toyota and Tesla made the RAV so good, I imagine that once Tesla was involved, they didn't want anything with their name on it to be substandard. Too much risk of damaging their still young brand. I agree, though, that Toyota could have opted to "cheap out" with a tiny city car. I'm glad they didn't.
To me the freeway mileage would be meaningless, since there isn't a freeway within LEAF range of where I live. Same for "in town mileage", for that matter, because city driving is just a few percent of my total miles. But, I'll grant you that, since most car owners drive freeways regularly, it would be helpful to know what the high speed performance and range is for an EV.ILETRIC said:I wish Edmund's took the cars to Hwy 5 and ran them at 65 on flat ground. In town mileage to me is meaningless... California is a freeway country. That's all we drive here. I bought the Leaf for a 84-mile freeway commute. Didn't materialize because the range is 73. It's "her" car now.
RAV4-EV 32.9 kWh / 45.1 kWh / 41.8 kWh
ActiveE 28.6 kWh / 31.0 kWh / 32 kWh
Coda 32.3 kWh / 34.1 kWh / 31 kWh
Fit 19.5 kWh / 20.1 kWh / 20 kWh
Focus 21.9 kWh / 23.0 kWh / 23 kWh
Golf 26.6 kWh / 28.0 kWh / 26.5 kWh
LEAF 20.0 kWh / 20.5 kWh / 24 kWh
iMiEV 15.2 kWh / 15.9 kWh / 16 kWh
drees said:Here's what's interesting:
They assumed the LEAF would only go 83 miles before turtle - their test procedure involves driving each car down to an indicated 5 mi DTE - I presume that on the LEAF if they say 2 mi DTE they drove it 3 miles past when they saw 5 mi DTE.
Their measured efficiency was 24.7 kWh/100 mi, assuming that the LEAF really would have turtled at 83 mi, that indicates that it only took 20.5 kWh to charge back to 100% had it been driven to 83 mi (and comes out to 20.0 kWh from the wall to charge back to full).
That's 3-4+ kWh short of what it would take to charge a new LEAF from turtle to 100% - at ~250 Wh/mi that's 12-16 miles left on the table which would have put it right up there with the other EVs (assuming that the other EVs had an accurate DTE indicator).
Anyway, calculating their from the wall energy numbers (1st # is energy actually used to charge back to 100% as driven, 2nd is extrapolated energy assuming DTE indicator is accurate, 3rd is official capacity):
Code:RAV4-EV 32.9 kWh / 45.1 kWh / 41.8 kWh ActiveE 28.6 kWh / 31.0 kWh / 32 kWh Coda 32.3 kWh / 34.1 kWh / 31 kWh Fit 19.5 kWh / 20.1 kWh / 20 kWh Focus 21.9 kWh / 23.0 kWh / 23 kWh Golf 26.6 kWh / 28.0 kWh / 26.5 kWh LEAF 20.0 kWh / 20.5 kWh / 24 kWh iMiEV 15.2 kWh / 15.9 kWh / 16 kWh
The LEAF is the only car that comes in significantly lower for a 0-100% charge - every other car's from the wall energy is very close or slightly more than it's rated capacity which is expected - most manufacturers seem to reserve about 15% capacity to enhance calendar life.
So what's wrong with their LEAF? Is theirs significantly degraded and down 15%+ capacity? Or did the GOM get too pessimistic? Or both?
ELROY said:Kind of interesting the CODA has all that range with one of the lowest efficiency ratings.
drees said:Here's what's interesting:
....
Anyway, calculating their from the wall energy numbers (1st # is energy actually used to charge back to 100% as driven, 2nd is extrapolated energy assuming DTE indicator is accurate, 3rd is official capacity):
Code:RAV4-EV 32.9 kWh / 45.1 kWh / 41.8 kWh ActiveE 28.6 kWh / 31.0 kWh / 32 kWh Coda 32.3 kWh / 34.1 kWh / 31 kWh Fit 19.5 kWh / 20.1 kWh / 20 kWh Focus 21.9 kWh / 23.0 kWh / 23 kWh Golf 26.6 kWh / 28.0 kWh / 26.5 kWh LEAF 20.0 kWh / 20.5 kWh / 24 kWh iMiEV 15.2 kWh / 15.9 kWh / 16 kWh
The LEAF is the only car that comes in significantly lower for a 0-100% charge - every other car's from the wall energy is very close or slightly more than it's rated capacity which is expected - most manufacturers seem to reserve about 15% capacity to enhance calendar life.
So what's wrong with their LEAF? Is theirs significantly degraded and down 15%+ capacity? Or did the GOM get too pessimistic? Or both?
jkirkebo said:I find it amusing that the heaviest car has the shortest braking distance (by far) and the highest slalom speed
TonyWilliams said:I find that the Rav4 EV actually gets significantly better economy at 65mph (3.4 miles/kWh - 142 mile range) than is typical in the city, where I get about 2.7 miles/kWh - 113 miles range. That's quite a difference from the LEAF, where I got the same 4 miles/kWh - 84 mile range at 65mph that I got in town.
Likewise! And it's the quietest.jkirkebo said:I find it amusing that the heaviest car has the shortest braking distance (by far) and the highest slalom speed
drees said:Anyway, calculating their from the wall energy numbers (1st # is energy actually used to charge back to 100% as driven, 2nd is extrapolated energy assuming DTE indicator is accurate, 3rd is official capacity):
Code:RAV4-EV 32.9 kWh / 45.1 kWh / 41.8 kWh ActiveE 28.6 kWh / 31.0 kWh / 32 kWh Coda 32.3 kWh / 34.1 kWh / 31 kWh Fit 19.5 kWh / 20.1 kWh / 20 kWh Focus 21.9 kWh / 23.0 kWh / 23 kWh Golf 26.6 kWh / 28.0 kWh / 26.5 kWh LEAF 20.0 kWh / 20.5 kWh / 24 kWh iMiEV 15.2 kWh / 15.9 kWh / 16 kWh
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