drive electric tour 10/8-10/10 @ OC Auto Show (Anaheim)

[garygid]

You PAY your PU 3¢/kWh to deliver the energy that you over-generate? :roll:

But, you get paid very well for the power you over-generate during prime time.

 

[xtremeflyer]

You PAY your PU 3¢/kWh to deliver the energy that you over-generate? :roll:

But, you get paid very well for the power you over-generate during prime time.

You caught that huh? That threw me for a loop the first time I saw it, but I guess it makes some sense.

 

[hill]

Smart Meter caution:
If you have (or are planning to install) a PV generation system, the PU-offered "smart" meter might not "run backward". Some meters do not properly detect or "subtract" your out-going power.

We have a 'smart' meter and our utility said we have to have a second meter for the pvs at no charge to us and it will spin in reverse.

If you have grid tied PV, and a separate EV TOU meter, the separate TOU meter doesen't NEED to run backwards. After all, your main meter clocks your surplus generation. Your separate EV TOU meter is running forwards ... after the panels shut down ... in the evening.

.

 

[garygid]

IF the separate EV TOU meter charges little for late night charging, but charges a LOT for Peak usage, then it might CREDIT a lot for Peak Over-Generation.

IF SO, connecting all the PV generation to go through the "EV" meter might be ... profitable?

 

[cdub]

Wow! What a great test drive I had yesterday.

The course was MUCH better than Santa Monica... much longer and nicer streets where I could really test out the cars acceleration... and man is that car fun to drive. Great acceleration off of the line... it was fun putting it in ECO mode for some stints and then popping it back into regular D and just launching away... it was almost like using a stick shift. (almost - the motion at least brought back some fun memories)

I think it maybe lost a mile of range on my trip... even with my little fun. I also tested it going up the ramp to see how it would be on hills. That was great too.

I CAN'T WAIT until I get my car.

Of course I have to be able to ORDER it first! PLEASE Nissan fix my issue... I was supposed to be able to order last month!

p.s. - confirmed that traffic is XM - not carwings.

 

[eddiey]

Wow! What a great test drive I had yesterday.
p.s. - confirmed that traffic is XM - not carwings.

Oh yuck. XM traffic is horrible (and pricey). I had it for three months on a free trial earlier this year and it missed out on so many jams and only covered some freeways. I compared it with Google maps, and Bing maps. Bing was most accurate, second place was Google, third was XM.

 

[garygid]

So, do we get free "traffic" for 3 years?
Or, is the LEAF-Nav "crippled" when the XM trial period runs out.

I do not want to buy CARWINGS, XM, AAA, and cell-phone subscriptions to "properly" use the LEAF.

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

The digital smart meters don't spin, of course. But they also don't necessarily run in "reverse". Instead they record the "use" and the "production" with two separate data fields, both continuously incrementing from zero. We don't have PV (yet). One data item continuously increments, and a second one is fixed at 0 on our meter. The meter cycles thru several data fields on its display continuously, including those two. (Our PU is SMUD.)

I can tell you that SDG&E meters work differently.

The GE kv2 meter keeps totals for each time period, incrementing for consumption, and decrementing for generation.

It does not keep separate use/generation counts -- they are combined into one total.
I would venture a guess that your meter is the same, and the "0" field isn't what you think. I could be wrong.

 

[smkettner]

I do not want to buy CARWINGS, XM, AAA, and cell-phone subscriptions to "properly" use the LEAF.

x2 Just give me open wifi anyday.

 

[planet4ever]

The digital smart meters don't spin, of course. But they also don't necessarily run in "reverse". Instead they record the "use" and the "production" with two separate data fields, both continuously incrementing from zero.

I can tell you that SDG&E meters work differently.

The GE kv2 meter keeps totals for each time period, incrementing for consumption, and decrementing for generation.

It does not keep separate use/generation counts -- they are combined into one total.
I would venture a guess that your meter is the same, and the "0" field isn't what you think. I could be wrong.

Just to keep things straight here, the GE kv2 is a TOU meter but it is not a smart meter. They came around my neighborhood recently replacing traditional (non-TOU) meters with smart meters. But they tagged mine specially and did not replace it, because I had a kv2 that was installed four years ago when I put in my solar array.

Smart meters have two-way communication between the meter and the central system, usually on a daily or hourly basis. The kv2 does support some communication attachments that can let the meter be read remotely (typically monthly), but so far as I know there is no way to talk to it. At least, our PU hasn't figured out any way to even get my meter corrected for the new daylight savings dates that went into effect three years ago. No, the kv2 is definitely a "dumb" meter, not a "smart" one.

 

[hill]

IF the separate EV TOU meter charges little for late night charging, but charges a LOT for Peak usage, then it might CREDIT a lot for Peak Over-Generation.

IF SO, connecting all the PV generation to go through the "EV" meter might be ... profitable?

As long as one of either the 2 meters goes backwards when over producing, it's a moot point, right?

 

[garygid]

No, not moot.
In both cases the generation is "tallied", but the two meters have different Tariff/Total rates (or there would be no reason to have two meters). If the charge you different rates, they might easily PAY (or credit) you differently for over-generation the two different meters.

Also, one would tend to have little or no over-generation on the main house meter, but might have MASSIVE over-generation during PEAK time-of-day on the EV meter.

With PV on the main meter, you might have no over-generation, getting 1 kWh "benefit" for each 1 kWh generated. Yes, perhaps keeping that usage down to tier 1 instead of in tier 3.

But, if the EV meter, to get a better rate at Late-Night, has a "huge" cost during Peak, AND (very important) your PU credits you with a BIG payment pee kWh (like above the main meter's tier 3 or 4 full cost), then pumping all the PV back through the EV meter could PAY (or credit) you more $$$.

But, some PUs (like SDG&E) appear to bill a LOT for usage and only credit a LITTLE for any over-generation.

 

[hill]

No, not moot.
In both cases the generation is "tallied", but the two meters have different Tariff/Total rates (or there would be no reason to have two meters). If the charge you different rates, they might easily PAY (or credit) you differently for over-generation the two different meters.

Also, one would tend to have little or no over-generation on the main house meter, but might have MASSIVE over-generation during PEAK time-of-day on the EV meter.

With PV on the main meter, you might have no over-generation, getting 1 kWh "benefit" for each 1 kWh generated. Yes, perhaps keeping that usage down to tier 1 instead of in tier 3.
. . . . . . . . . . snip
But, some PUs (like SDG&E) appear to bill a LOT for usage and only credit a LITTLE for any over-generation.

SCE hasn't yet revealed what payment for surplus they're going to propose to the PUC. It has ALWAYS benefitted them, not us the customers. It sounds like your utility does similarly. That's why I still see PV surplus being moot, regardless which meter receives surplus.
First, if one meter WAS more favorable, it'd be QUICK, how fast the utility would go to the PUC to adjust rates that favor the utility. Next, if somehow the utility didn't seek adjustments, how many years, or decades might it take to cover costs for permits and rewiring from one meter to the other. Tons of other variables too, like modifying your example above. What if your main panel (loosing PV to an EV TOU) in stead of raising from tier 1 to 3, you go all the way from tier 1 to tier 5. We'd had a TON of tier 5 (prior to instslling our 7.1Kwr ac rated PV), running business equipment out of the home 6 days/week 14-16 hrs/day. How's the paltry PV surplus on an EV TOU going to offset the usage on the main panel? With an infinite # of variables, and the utility company ability to seek 'adjustments' for people willing to pay 100's to move PV from 1 meter to another ... it still seems it'd be moot.

BTW, did anyone get multiple test drives on the same day? It wasn't too crowded there on Saturday early.
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[xtremeflyer]

This discussion should be in the utilities section, but I wanted to point out something about tiers.

Once you go to TOU with SCE, there are only two levels. Level 1 is Tier 1 + Tier 2 (130% of allocation) and Level 2 is anything above that. So there is no longer any difference between Tier 3 and Tier 5 in the TOU rates.

 

[EVDRIVER]

This discussion should be in the utilities section, but I wanted to point out something about tiers.

Once you go to TOU with SCE, there are only two levels. Level 1 is Tier 1 + Tier 2 (130% of allocation) and Level 2 is anything above that. So there is no longer any difference between Tier 3 and Tier 5 in the TOU rates.

PGE sure rips us off!

 

[tomguy]

I can confirm that SCE does allow smart meters for houses with Solar Panels. Below is my latest bill. Notice the negative numbers. You may want to call and ask for someone else. (BTW, I'm not in a Smart Meter region, I specifically requested the TOU rate and they came and installed it for free). I have not yet enquired about the second meter yet.


Your rate: TOU-D-T-APSE
Billing period: Aug 12 '10 to Sep 14 '10 (33 days)

Delivery Charges
Energy-Summer On Peak
Lvl 1 (1% to 130% of bsln) -130 kWh x -$0.03224 = $4.19
Energy-Summer Off Peak
Lvl 1 (1% to 130% of bsln) 242 kWh x $0.05251 = $12.71
DWR bond charge 112 kWh x $0.00515 = $0.58
A/C cycling discount = -$0.50

Generation Charges
DWR
Energy-Summer On Peak
Lvl 1 (1% to 130% of bsln) -33 kWh x $0.03763 = -$1.24
Energy-Summer Off Peak
Lvl 1 (1% to 130% of bsln) 62 kWh x $0.03762 = $2.33
SCE
Energy-Summer On Peak
Lvl 1 (1% to 130% of bsln) -97 kWh x $0.29541 = -$28.65
Energy-Summer Off Peak
Lvl 1 (1% to 130% of bsln) 180 kWh x $0.07510 = $13.52

Energy Charge Total $2.94

On my parent's home they have a digital meter also that spins backwards. I asked SCE if that was a smart meter and they told me no it's a regular meter but digital reading. So I'm not sure who to believe and how I can get a smart meter. Maybe in your area they've already implemented the software for the smart meter.

I know in my area I've talked to SCE numerous times and the tech even said it's not possible at this moment.

 

[xtremeflyer]

My meter looks like this:

http://www.sce.com/CustomerService/smartconnect/default.htm?from=mediawindow

No one else in my community has a smart meter because they haven't signed up for TOU. According to SCE.com our community wont get SmartMeters until Dec 11, but since I asked to be put on a TOU, they installed the smart meter early.

 

[Boomer23]

On my parent's home they have a digital meter also that spins backwards. I asked SCE if that was a smart meter and they told me no it's a regular meter but digital reading. So I'm not sure who to believe and how I can get a smart meter. Maybe in your area they've already implemented the software for the smart meter.

I know in my area I've talked to SCE numerous times and the tech even said it's not possible at this moment.

SCE is doing a phased roll-out of smart meters. Here is a web page where you can enter your zip code and get an estimated installation month.

http://www.sce.com/CustomerService/smartconnect/about_smartconnect.htm
Click on "When will you get one?" at the right side of the page.

When I installed my solar PV system almost 4 years ago, SCE replaced my mechanical meter with a digital one that ran forwards and backwards. A month ago, I requested to change to a whole house time-of-use (TOU) plan and SCE came out and installed a new meter called a IDR meter to track my usage and the power that my solar panels send back to the grid by time of day. The IDR meter is digital, it cycles through several data displays. It doesn't run "backwards", but instead it adds kWh to one display when I use power FROM SCE's grid and it adds kWh to another display when my solar power is going TO the grid.

This is STILL not a "smart meter". I was told that my IDR meter will be replaced with a smart meter in about a year, according to SCE's geographic roll-out plan. Some of the differences will be that nobody will need to enter my yard to read the meter, as they do now with the IDR meter, the data will be sent to SCE wirelessly, and I will be able to see my data on a web site.

 

[hill]

. . . . . . . snip A month ago, I requested to change to a whole house time-of-use (TOU) plan and SCE came out and installed a new meter called a IDR meter to track my usage and the power that my solar panels send back to the grid by time of day. The IDR meter is digital, it cycles through several data displays. It doesn't run "backwards", but instead it adds kWh to one display when I use power FROM SCE's grid and it adds kWh to another display when my solar power is going TO the grid.

This is STILL not a "smart meter". I was told that my IDR meter will be replaced with a smart meter in about a year, according to SCE's geographic roll-out plan. Some of the differences will be that nobody will need to enter my yard to read the meter, as they do now with the IDR meter, the data will be sent to SCE wirelessly, and I will be able to see my data on a web site.

WAY cool.

This discussion should be in the utilities section, but I wanted to point out something about tiers. Once you go to TOU with SCE, there are only two levels. Level 1 is Tier 1 + Tier 2 (130% of allocation) . . . . . . . . snip

I don't think anyone is questioning that. However, the point was if you had BOTH ... a standard meter, and you have one TOU EV meter. Configured that way, you STILL have the three top tiers ... 3, 4, and 5. Sorry about that - if I didn't make that clear.
.

 

[cdub]

Aren't we getting seriously OT here?